TekLinks

[Kamekai offline]

Hey guys, I thought of something cool. Since pretty soon a huge wave of former TL members will be joining, why not organize a little club that only new (joined only after the Shutdown) members can join a club, called the Teklinks Scavengers, or Survivors or something like that. Any thoughts on organizing something like this? We'd need a banner, for one thing. I think Carth would be the best choice, if she's willing to help out.

[Jeremie offline]

who is Hikaru's what did he do to the Forum? i can from Teklinks i was olny a member for 2 days.

[Mewberries151]

I am only going to post the same thing here that I did on Son-Neko's DA Journal in an attempt to get a larger overall viewerbase to what is probably the most calm, down to earth, and truth-seeking comments in regarding to this situation:

Unfortunately, as a neutral party here, it was only inevitable and I'm only surprised they have lasted as long as they did. It may very well be related in some way to the ending of CL (rumors or not, I have heard excuses as bold as TL being the reason there will be no Season 5.)

From a legal standpoint, Warton and the rest of the crew at TL have been flying under the motto 'ignorance is bliss' and their own legal state as minors and have openly and proudly done stuff as ballsy as watermarking episodes which they have already gotten in a not so legal manner, forcing people to credit them for everything on their site when all of it is solely owned and copyrighted by moonscoop who gave them no permission to do so in the first place. Not to mention how many times they have indirectly and deliberately stolen from the parties involved in making and airing CL (pre-air releases ripped off the CN website for one which results in no ad-related funds going back to the creators where they belong).

Hikaru should not be the one to blame for this either. While her intentions were immature, the end result should be commended. Through TL's actions, CL in general has been slowly dying, if mostly in an unnoticed manner. TL (was) a huge community and attracted a large chunk of the CL fanbase whether some want to believe that or not. And most of them used it largely to get access to the illegally garnered materials that TL has hosted. That's not gonna look so good to Moonscoop or involved parties when a chunk of their fanbase is not going to go out and legally purchase the merchandise from the show or watch the episodes on TV with adfare intact.

I'm personally happy TL is gone if only because it gives that sliver of hope that Moonscoop may try and continue letting CL live now that one of the largest piracy rings of the show is gone.

And I will say this: I am not saying I am innocent. I have been the alternative source for downloadable CL eps for quite some time. Back to the end of season 2 and beginning of season 3 in fact. But all of my rips are gathered after the airing and not once do I marinate them in watermarks or force people to credit me solely for when they use them. In fact, despite this, I, personally, have purchased every DVD set of the show, the soundtrack, and a large amount of other merchandise despite my activity in 'illegally' providing the community with episodes and other CL material (Additionally, these have only been available to a VERY tiny fraction of the fan base, once again thanks to TL)

As a final note: I know I'm gonna catch flack for this and I don't quite care. But I am only going to respond to civil responses and debates, not outright flames. Thanks.

I also want to add a FINAL note that I am not in any way in any hatred of TL. But I do think they would have been much better off as just a discussion community without being largely and prominently involved in illegal distribution of the materials that they did.

Also reposted from DA (just since I like the comment system better here):

Unfortunately I feel that your opinion that TL bringing about the end of Code Lyoko and the lack of a Season 5 is a little misguided or at the very least, misinformed. The producers of the show had expressed an intent to end the show at 4 seasons since the end of season 2. Granted maybe whatever little percentage of merchandise and viewership they lost due to TL offering the episodes didn't help (however, I find that slightly unlikely as the DVDs only go 5 episodes into season 2 and most of the viewers who can watch CL in America do try to see it on TV), but I highly highly doubt it was the reason that Code Lyoko ended at season 4, and I have some pretty good sources to back me up on this.

Did you ever stop to consider that stopping at season 4 was a creative choice and not a business one? I understand that normally this is not the case with cartoons, but the facts revolving around CL support it.

[Jeremified offline]

100% agreed. If Moonscoop hadn't known about TL before Hikaru piped up, why would they close it down because of them?

[Chad Rains offline]

I am not discounting any possible explanation for CL ending and I DO realise that they had previously explained that there was only going to be up to a season 4. But Moonscoop has never made this a definite in any variance of the wording they have used and I personally doubt they would have intentionally wanted to kill the show off so early without an alternative reason if it's one of the very few shows in their portfolio actually raking in the ratings. It may very well be it was an intentional decision to end CL disregarding this whole situation, but the way I see it is it is VERY possible this case is true so I'm not discounting any explanation till a firm explanation has been given. Hell, Moonscoop still hasn't given us a 100% confirmed if there is or isn't going to be a continuation past Season 4. It's all been an utter shitload of repeated and modified rumors by the bottom rungs of the community.

And I am sorry: 'If Moonscoop hadn't known about TL before Hikaru piped up' is a total fallacy and a blatant case of denial. Moonscoop has known about TL since very early on as well as the rest of the top fansites out there like LF, CL.FR, and CL.NET to name a few. They are HARDLY as dumb as you make them out to be. Like I have mentioned in my earlier post: Moonscoop may not have cared earlier on, but that doesn't mean TL gets off scot free permanently. All it takes is a minor beef within the ranks of MS and, as seen in this case, TL gets shut down. I'm pretty sure with a) The english voicecast being members here on LF which is closely linked to TL and 2) TB3 having the long interview/documentary with the whole crew and not only being a member here but at TL as well, that any knowledge about TL would have been kept completely under wraps even if it was so called 'hidden' in the first place.

I am still of the full opinion that the bane of TL's issue, and I have repeated this to warton and his crew from day one as well as a handful of others who have a decent set of marbles on their shoulders, is the eliticism in watermarking everything that is not in any way 'owned' by them but rather is COPYRIGHTED by Moonscoop who gave them no permission to watermark the media or even claim it as their own in the first place. Seeing as NO other ripping group on the net openly watermarks their rips (read: openly. There are some that do watermark their rips, but they are smart enough to keep it privately distributed), I'm pretty sure MS never really bothered to closely investigate for any number of reasons and only recently have they bothered to delve deeper and see what TL has REALLY been up to.

Also, not defending Hikaru, but do you REALLY think she has enough clout to even convince anyone at MS let alone get them to take action in this case? She has shown she hardly has the maturity to keep a convincing argument for five minutes let alone keep the attention of anyone in a legal department of a large company like MS. More than likely a case was already building against TL before this point and Hikaru was the final straw to put things into motion.

[timekitten offline]

I am not discounting any possible explanation for CL ending and I DO realise that they had previously explained that there was only going to be up to a season 4. But Moonscoop has never made this a definite in any variance of the wording they have used and I personally doubt they would have intentionally wanted to kill the show off so early without an alternative reason if it's one of the very few shows in their portfolio actually raking in the ratings. It may very well be it was an intentional decision to end CL disregarding this whole situation, but the way I see it is it is VERY possible this case is true so I'm not discounting any explanation till a firm explanation has been given. Hell, Moonscoop still hasn't given us a 100% confirmed if there is or isn't going to be a continuation past Season 4. It's all been an utter shitload of repeated and modified rumors by the bottom rungs of the community.

Just noting here that MoonScoop has confirmed that there is no S5, but there's a strong chance of a special to shed more light on Project Carthage.

[Mewberries151]

I am not discounting any possible explanation for CL ending and I DO realise that they had previously explained that there was only going to be up to a season 4. But Moonscoop has never made this a definite in any variance of the wording they have used and I personally doubt they would have intentionally wanted to kill the show off so early without an alternative reason if it's one of the very few shows in their portfolio actually raking in the ratings. It may very well be it was an intentional decision to end CL disregarding this whole situation, but the way I see it is it is VERY possible this case is true so I'm not discounting any explanation till a firm explanation has been given. Hell, Moonscoop still hasn't given us a 100% confirmed if there is or isn't going to be a continuation past Season 4. It's all been an utter shitload of repeated and modified rumors by the bottom rungs of the community.

But that's just the thing. We don't even know if they actually are ending at season 4 or if they're going to do something more with it, maybe not in the way of a new season but in other ways (which they have given strong inclinations towards).

So to blame TL as the reason that MoonScoop didn't go for a Season 5 is patently unfair and highly untrue.

Also, you keep saying that Moonscoop is ending a show with high ratings. Please note, most of the ratings they are going by are from the air rates in France. CL, as popular as it is here, is amazingly popular in France, so I would assume that they'd care more about their ratings in France than they do here at the moment.

And since TL only offers downloads of the English episodes, which don't air in France to begin with, I hardly see how 1) TL can be blamed for MoonScoop's choice in ending CL's seasons at 4, and 2) how TL's downloads would be drastically effecting their ratings.

This is why I'm convinced that the decision to end CL is a creative one. It doesn't make any sense to end a show, at least from a business perspective, when it is popular in it's native country and decently popular internationally. However, it does make sense to end a show on a high note through creative choice, so that it doesn't have to suffer being dragged through more seasons that the writers and creative teams aren't up to doing.

And I am sorry: 'If Moonscoop hadn't known about TL before Hikaru piped up' is a total fallacy and a blatant case of denial. Moonscoop has known about TL since very early on as well as the rest of the top fansites out there like LF, CL.FR, and CL.NET to name a few. They are HARDLY as dumb as you make them out to be. Like I have mentioned in my earlier post: Moonscoop may not have cared earlier on, but that doesn't mean TL gets off scot free permanently. All it takes is a minor beef within the ranks of MS and, as seen in this case, TL gets shut down. I'm pretty sure with a) The english voicecast being members here on LF which is closely linked to TL and 2) TB3 having the long interview/documentary with the whole crew and not only being a member here but at TL as well, that any knowledge about TL would have been kept completely under wraps even if it was so called 'hidden' in the first place.

Okay, first off relax a little...no one is calling Moonscoop or its crew, "dumb". ^^;

Furthermore, again, TL was not shut down by MoonScoop. It was shut down by choice, by the Admins to avoid any possibly legal trouble and to go out with a bang. That's printed on their current wordpress page.

Also, I'd like to remind you that the VAs here are not "spies" for Moonscoop and should not be treated or inferred to as such. Just because they chose to join here does not mean that they are acting as the eyes and ears for the company they work for, and I find it a little insulting that you seem to be insinuating that.

We ask that episode downloads not be discussed here in any form simply because we do not want legal trouble with whoever controls the sale of Code Lyoko and other various properties. It's not just CL episode downloads we discourage talking about. It's all of them, simply because if some Fed decided to pop in here and saw the links, we could all be in big trouble. I'm not particularly threatened by MoonScoop, as they seem to be relatively cool with the idea of their products being available on the web. LyokoCode's LyokoVid features, and the vast amount of CL media that exists on the main CL sites you listed seems to suggest that MoonScoop is much more open to fanworks and creations than most.

Also, not defending Hikaru, but do you REALLY think she has enough clout to even convince anyone at MS let alone get them to take action in this case? She has shown she hardly has the maturity to keep a convincing argument for five minutes let alone keep the attention of anyone in a legal department of a large company like MS. More than likely a case was already building against TL before this point and Hikaru was the final straw to put things into motion.

There's no way to prove whether either of our opinions on this are correct, but I'd have to disagree. One overly vocal member can make a huge amount of difference. It happens at DA, YouTube, and DailyMotion all the time. All you need is one person, who has nothing better to do, search for things that use copyright material and write up reports for them. And before you know it, all the stuff is gone.

Hikaru could have easily done all of this on her own. MoonScoop ignored her the first time around because she contacted them as herself. However, she then went to CL.com, who does have connections to MoonScoop, and that's what likely got her message through.

One person can absolutely make a difference. It works in the negative way just as well as it works in the positive way.

[Chad Rains offline]

But that's just the thing. We don't even know if they actually are ending at season 4 or if they're going to do something more with it, maybe not in the way of a new season but in other ways (which they have given strong inclinations towards).

So to blame TL as the reason that MoonScoop didn't go for a Season 5 is patently unfair and highly untrue.

Also, you keep saying that Moonscoop is ending a show with high ratings. Please note, most of the ratings they are going by are from the air rates in France. CL, as popular as it is here, is amazingly popular in France, so I would assume that they'd care more about their ratings in France than they do here at the moment.

And since TL only offers downloads of the English episodes, which don't air in France to begin with, I hardly see how 1) TL can be blamed for MoonScoop's choice in ending CL's seasons at 4, and 2) how TL's downloads would be drastically effecting their ratings.

This is why I'm convinced that the decision to end CL is a creative one. It doesn't make any sense to end a show, at least from a business perspective, when it is popular in it's native country and decently popular internationally. However, it does make sense to end a show on a high note through creative choice, so that it doesn't have to suffer being dragged through more seasons that the writers and creative teams aren't up to doing.

You say potato, I say potato (and all that jazz). A mild variation in ratings isn't going to change the fact that CL /IS/ getting good ratings in here in NA no matter how second rate it may be to it's native land. All the same, ratings talk in tv land and that's the last I have to say on the matter. Use your own common sense (if applicable) on the fact.

Okay, first off relax a little...no one is calling Moonscoop or its crew, "dumb". ^^;

Furthermore, again, TL was not shut down by MoonScoop. It was shut down by choice, by the Admins to avoid any possibly legal trouble and to go out with a bang. That's printed on their current wordpress page.

Haha. You really think that? I find it hard to believe that the stubborn and bullheaded admins behind TL would have willingly let the place go without some stern reason behind it. Fact of the matter is this: They received a cease and decist email directly from Moonscoop on the matter and have been running around like chickens with their heads chopped all last evening trying to save face (as indicated by the rapid removal of the episode downloads and media forums and a clear disclaimer being added at the bottom stating they are a not-for-profit site and all funds from the ads go towards server costs. ALL within the matter of mere minutes of the drama taking place.) and ONLY decided to shutdown due to a voice of reason TO prevent any further legal action which could have very well put Lyoko Computer (owner of the server itself) in very hot water legally. It certainly was not by 'choice'. It was by 'necessity' if not by 'force' if they had decided to ignore it.

Also, I'd like to remind you that the VAs here are not "spies" for Moonscoop and should not be treated or inferred to as such. Just because they chose to join here does not mean that they are acting as the eyes and ears for the company they work for, and I find it a little insulting that you seem to be insinuating that.

I have not once insinuated this. I only mention the voice actors because they are employed by moonscoop and are members here and while they may not be 'spying' perse, any possible ignorance to the fansites by MS would surely wash away in due time.

We ask that episode downloads not be discussed here in any form simply because we do not want legal trouble with whoever controls the sale of Code Lyoko and other various properties. It's not just CL episode downloads we discourage talking about. It's all of them, simply because if some Fed decided to pop in here and saw the links, we could all be in big trouble. I'm not particularly threatened by MoonScoop, as they seem to be relatively cool with the idea of their products being available on the web. LyokoCode's LyokoVid features, and the vast amount of CL media that exists on the main CL sites you listed seems to suggest that MoonScoop is much more open to fanworks and creations than most.

Truth. But not a SINGLE company would let a fansite get away with blatant and ignorant copyright infringement which, in this case, is the aforementioned watermarking on every last piece of media hosted at TL. Warton and the rest of his crew at TL made a HUGE mistake here and have refused to listen to reason on the matter early on and it's finally come back to bite them in the ass.

There's no way to prove whether either of our opinions on this are correct, but I'd have to disagree. One overly vocal member can make a huge amount of difference. It happens at DA, YouTube, and DailyMotion all the time. All you need is one person, who has nothing better to do, search for things that use copyright material and write up reports for them. And before you know it, all the stuff is gone.

Hikaru could have easily done all of this on her own. MoonScoop ignored her the first time around because she contacted them as herself. However, she then went to CL.com, who does have connections to MoonScoop, and that's what likely got her message through.

One person can absolutely make a difference. It works in the negative way just as well as it works in the positive way.

Even if that is the case (and I'm not doubting you on that), do you think that, regardless of Hikaru's original intent, she is wholly to blame for actually doing something that would have eventually been brought to light anyways? The whole community seems to be overly hellbent over this and have been spamming around with needless death threats and childish arguments which hold no water whatsoever. I am not in any way agreeing with her original intent which was to 'get back at Warton' (even though I have my own beefs with him, but that's besides the point), she brought this problem to light which, if it didn't happen now, would have came up later. Everyone needs to grow up and get over themselves. TL would have eventually ended up in this situation if they remained on the same path they have been legality-wise even if Hikaru had not been involved. And it's not like it's the end all community for CL. You all DO have the official forums (which many of the members would have fit right at home) and here at LF. And if you use a few braincells, there ARE other locations to get your CL episodes if you just MUST absolutely have them and not see them on tv (exaggerating aside, I know there are other reasons.).

"Common sense is at an all-time high premium lately and the CL community in general is starved for it it seems." ~Myself

[Mewberries151]

But that's just the thing. We don't even know if they actually are ending at season 4 or if they're going to do something more with it, maybe not in the way of a new season but in other ways (which they have given strong inclinations towards).

So to blame TL as the reason that MoonScoop didn't go for a Season 5 is patently unfair and highly untrue.

Also, you keep saying that Moonscoop is ending a show with high ratings. Please note, most of the ratings they are going by are from the air rates in France. CL, as popular as it is here, is amazingly popular in France, so I would assume that they'd care more about their ratings in France than they do here at the moment.

And since TL only offers downloads of the English episodes, which don't air in France to begin with, I hardly see how 1) TL can be blamed for MoonScoop's choice in ending CL's seasons at 4, and 2) how TL's downloads would be drastically effecting their ratings.

This is why I'm convinced that the decision to end CL is a creative one. It doesn't make any sense to end a show, at least from a business perspective, when it is popular in it's native country and decently popular internationally. However, it does make sense to end a show on a high note through creative choice, so that it doesn't have to suffer being dragged through more seasons that the writers and creative teams aren't up to doing.

You say potato, I say potato (and all that jazz). A mild variation in ratings isn't going to change the fact that CL /IS/ getting good ratings in here in NA no matter how second rate it may be to it's native land. All the same, ratings talk in tv land and that's the last I have to say on the matter. Use your own common sense (if applicable) on the fact.

I beg your pardon, but are you saying I have no common sense? I'm beginning to like your tone less and less, and I suggest you watch how you word things from now on, lest they be taken in a way you don't want them to be taken. For someone who asked for a mature conversation several posts back without insults and flames, you sure seem to be throwing them out.

And you are missing my point. MoonScoop is going to be more interested in the viewership CL gets in France than it will in CL, simply because it is a French cartoon. The viewership it gets here is merely a fraction of the big piece of the corporate pie.

Okay, first off relax a little...no one is calling Moonscoop or its crew, "dumb". ^^;

Furthermore, again, TL was not shut down by MoonScoop. It was shut down by choice, by the Admins to avoid any possibly legal trouble and to go out with a bang. That's printed on their current wordpress page.

Haha. You really think that? I find it hard to believe that the stubborn and bullheaded admins behind TL would have willingly let the place go without some stern reason behind it. Fact of the matter is this: They received a cease and decist email directly from Moonscoop on the matter and have been running around like chickens with their heads chopped all last evening trying to save face (as indicated by the rapid removal of the episode downloads and media forums and a clear disclaimer being added at the bottom stating they are a not-for-profit site and all funds from the ads go towards server costs. ALL within the matter of mere minutes of the drama taking place.) and ONLY decided to shutdown due to a voice of reason TO prevent any further legal action which could have very well put Lyoko Computer (owner of the server itself) in very hot water legally. It certainly was not by 'choice'. It was by 'necessity' if not by 'force' if they had decided to ignore it.

Believe what you want to believe.

So far as has been reported, they were going to be investigated on the 3rd. They were not sent a cease and desist note from MoonScoop. Only a warning that they were going to be inspected.

Also, I'd like to remind you that the VAs here are not "spies" for Moonscoop and should not be treated or inferred to as such. Just because they chose to join here does not mean that they are acting as the eyes and ears for the company they work for, and I find it a little insulting that you seem to be insinuating that.

I have not once insinuated this. I only mention the voice actors because they are employed by moonscoop and are members here and while they may not be 'spying' perse, any possible ignorance to the fansites by MS would surely wash away in due time.

Well of course MoonScoop is going to be aware of the fansites. They sponsor, or at least, support infomation-wise at least half of the major ones out there. LyokoCode, in particular, has a very high contact rate with MoonScoop.

However, I would not make the VAs out to be the cause of any one particular forum or site getting into trouble with MoonScoop.

We ask that episode downloads not be discussed here in any form simply because we do not want legal trouble with whoever controls the sale of Code Lyoko and other various properties. It's not just CL episode downloads we discourage talking about. It's all of them, simply because if some Fed decided to pop in here and saw the links, we could all be in big trouble. I'm not particularly threatened by MoonScoop, as they seem to be relatively cool with the idea of their products being available on the web. LyokoCode's LyokoVid features, and the vast amount of CL media that exists on the main CL sites you listed seems to suggest that MoonScoop is much more open to fanworks and creations than most.

Truth. But not a SINGLE company would let a fansite get away with blatant and ignorant copyright infringement which, in this case, is the aforementioned watermarking on every last piece of media hosted at TL. Warton and the rest of his crew at TL made a HUGE mistake here and have refused to listen to reason on the matter early on and it's finally come back to bite them in the *ss.

Kindly mind your language too. This is a Y7 forum.

The only "watermark" I've ever seen on TL episodes is the little frame they put in the beginning of the episodes they used to have available. It doesn't show up in the AMVs, so far as I can tell, unless you're talking about a different watermark that I've yet to see (possibly because I was more interested in watching the episode than griping about watermarks). Watermarks don't do anything anyway, due to the fact that they can easily be removed or masked over.

There's no way to prove whether either of our opinions on this are correct, but I'd have to disagree. One overly vocal member can make a huge amount of difference. It happens at DA, YouTube, and DailyMotion all the time. All you need is one person, who has nothing better to do, search for things that use copyright material and write up reports for them. And before you know it, all the stuff is gone.

Hikaru could have easily done all of this on her own. MoonScoop ignored her the first time around because she contacted them as herself. However, she then went to CL.com, who does have connections to MoonScoop, and that's what likely got her message through.

One person can absolutely make a difference. It works in the negative way just as well as it works in the positive way.

Even if that is the case (and I'm not doubting you on that), do you think that, regardless of Hikaru's original intent, she is wholly to blame for actually doing something that would have eventually been brought to light anyways? The whole community seems to be overly hellbent over this and have been spamming around with needless death threats and childish arguments which hold no water whatsoever. I am not in any way agreeing with her original intent which was to 'get back at Warton' (even though I have my own beefs with him, but that's besides the point), she brought this problem to light which, if it didn't happen now, would have came up later.

We don't know whether it would have been brought to light eventually. Quite possibly, they would have been able to make it through season 4, and no one would have been any the wiser. And, yes, Hikaru is to blame for reporting TL because that's exactly what she did (I don't understand why you're so loathe to give her credit for it, as she seems to want the credit for it anyway). Simply because something you think was "going to happen eventually on its own" does not excuse her from the fact that she was the one who pulled the trigger.

I agree that the death threats and some of the arguements are childish, but there's no two ways around excusing Hikaru on the basis of "Oh, if she hadn't done it, someone else would have." That's like excusing a robber or murderer of his crime by saying, "Oh someone else could have stolen it/killed him, anyway."

Everyone needs to grow up and get over themselves. TL would have eventually ended up in this situation if they remained on the same path they have been legality-wise even if Hikaru had not been involved. And it's not like it's the end all community for CL. You all DO have the official forums (which many of the members would have fit right at home) and here at LF. And if you use a few braincells, there ARE other locations to get your CL episodes if you just MUST absolutely have them and not see them on tv (exaggerating aside, I know there are other reasons.).

"Common sense is at an all-time high premium lately and the CL community in general is starved for it it seems." ~Myself

Again, watch your tone, as you are coming off very rudely. I'm not going to tolerate anyone insulting anyone's intelligence around here. Either discuss this without insulting other people (which you originally asked for even), or don't discuss it at all.

Yes, losing TL is not the end of the CL community, but you have to admit it's a heavy blow, especially to those in the creative fields. The CL.com forums (which are the ones I'm assuming you're referring to as "official") are utter jokes. That forum is full of spam and hard to look through; just ask any member who's been there.

And you've still yet to acknowledge the fact that people still supported CL by watching the episodes when they aired, regardless of whether they downloaded the episodes later or not. The downloads were mainly patroned by those in foreign countries other than France who have yet to have the episodes past season 2 aired. They took a poll of it (and had a thread) in TL even, and I dearly wish I'd thought to take a screenshot of it now.

[Chad Rains offline]

I beg your pardon, but are you saying I have no common sense? I'm beginning to like your tone less and less, and I suggest you watch how you word things from now on, lest they be taken in a way you don't want them to be taken. For someone who asked for a mature conversation several posts back without insults and flames, you sure seem to be throwing them out.

And you are missing my point. MoonScoop is going to be more interested in the viewership CL gets in France than it will in CL, simply because it is a French cartoon. The viewership it gets here is merely a fraction of the big piece of the corporate pie.

Fine. I concede. I didn't INTEND to make it sound like I was making a derogatory remark. I was merely making a point that unless you are actually involved with the day to day business at moonscoop, you NOR I have a leg to stand on to say for certain how they care about things ratings-wise. Regardless, they HAVE released a few press releases where they have explicitly stated that OUTSIDE of France, the US on Cartoon Network has gotten the most ratings of all by a large margin. you say it's a fraction of the overall pie, but it's a large fraction even if it doesn't nearly come close to that of France. So take that as you will.

Believe what you want to believe.

So far as has been reported, they were going to be investigated on the 3rd. They were not sent a cease and desist note from MoonScoop. Only a warning that they were going to be inspected.

Either way, it was not a voluntary action by the admins, not by a LONG shot. If I was to believe the excuse that they were 'to be investigated', it still means this: They were going to be investigated. In response, the admins shut down TL. If they didn't have anything to hide and they were in the right legally, don't you think they would have left the site up and let the investigation happen since obviously they would not have been in harms way? Think about that one.

Well of course MoonScoop is going to be aware of the fansites. They sponsor, or at least, support infomation-wise at least half of the major ones out there. LyokoCode, in particular, has a very high contact rate with MoonScoop.

However, I would not make the VAs out to be the cause of any one particular forum or site getting into trouble with MoonScoop.

Again, I NEVER insinuated that and you only further proved my point that moonscoop is far from blind to fansites.

The only "watermark" I've ever seen on TL episodes is the little frame they put in the beginning of the episodes they used to have available. It doesn't show up in the AMVs, so far as I can tell, unless you're talking about a different watermark that I've yet to see (possibly because I was more interested in watching the episode than griping about watermarks). Watermarks don't do anything anyway, due to the fact that they can easily be removed or masked over.

Whether or not I'm using the correct textbook definition or not, by watermarks I am referring to the the repeated plastering of 'brought to you by teklinks' or 'property of wartonchan/teklinks' or whathaveyou that is on every single piece of CL media that is NOT fan-made. Every episode, every image, all the LOD videos, the whole nine yards. All plastered with TL's name. Even though the wording may be 'provided by', it all still implies some form of ownership by TL which clearly crosses the line from being in a grey area to being blatant copyright infringement since all of this media in question is certainly NOT owned by them but rather owned by trans-atlantic parties and copyrighted by Moonscoop. Moonscoop never even gave them this permission nor have they given them permission to REQUIRE people credit back to teklinks FIRST anytime a moonscoop copyrighted piece of work is downloaded off their site. /NO/ other fan community has been this naive and skated on thin ice knowingly, expecting that they have done nothing wrong/illegal. And if they have, they certainly haven't lasted long, hence why you probably never hear of many.

~
And the rest of it I'm not even going to respond to as I feel I have more than explained myself and don't feel like repeating. I apologize if I come off as rude as I do not intend to. But I do feel that, for one reason or another, the CL fan community in general has slowly been 'kicked off the wagon' as it were and if people can't look past their own mis-guided hatred towards Hikaru to see there are other just as suitable forums other than TL available, then I'm not gonna shed a tear for them. TL hasn't been down for much more than a day and I've already seen way too many melodramatic posts about it. More than I care to count.

[Keiji offline]

Combo breaking the wall of text...

Does anyone really care? No. I don't personally know anywhere else to get CL episodes from, but according to other people who posted in this topic there are some, so whoever wants to see them can stop moaning and start googling. Besides, it's only a (fake) anime series. Go find something else to watch. Or even better, do something more interesting than watching TV all day, if you're only going to complain.

[Jeremie offline]

i would say cl is a anime.

[timekitten offline]

In the sense that anime are cartoons not from the US, yes. In the sense that anime are cartoons from Japan, no. But in both senses, people automatically say it from the US point of view. Japan would call their stuff anime since that's the word for animation. Would France consider Code Lyoko anime?

Combo breaking the wall of text...

Does anyone really care? No. I don't personally know anywhere else to get CL episodes from, but according to other people who posted in this topic there are some, so whoever wants to see them can stop moaning and start googling. Besides, it's only a (fake) anime series. Go find something else to watch. Or even better, do something more interesting than watching TV all day, if you're only going to complain.

The irony of that statement being that CL airs 30 minutes each week. And people are complaining about not being watch the show online since CN airs it so unfairly.

But people do need to stop moaning about watching the videos at TL. People can still watching videos at sites designed for video watching. Video sites such as YouTube, Dailymotion, and Veoh, which I am simply stating here as an example. And even the god forbid CN Video airs CL episodes from time to time.

And you are missing my point. MoonScoop is going to be more interested in the viewership CL gets in France than it will in CL, simply because it is a French cartoon. The viewership it gets here is merely a fraction of the big piece of the corporate pie.

Regardless, they HAVE released a few press releases where they have explicitly stated that OUTSIDE of France, the US on Cartoon Network has gotten the most ratings of all by a large margin. you say it's a fraction of the overall pie, but it's a large fraction even if it doesn't nearly come close to that of France. So take that as you will.

Do you know where I could find those press releases? The closest thing relating to that I have read is from Sophie's interview. And she stated that French cartoons, if they even air in the US, don't get the best ratings. But CL has better success and receives better ratings in the US than usual. Doesn't necessarily mean that the US overall ratings are better than France's overall ratings.

Though if they were, either a lot of Americans (not just the obsessed CL fans like us) are very, very tolerant to CN's downright horrid (not the word I'd like to use) airing of CL and faithfully watch it to up the ratings, or France just doesn't have great ratings to begin with. Pretty sad if you ask me.

[lyokolady offline]

Hey guys, I thought of something cool. Since pretty soon a huge wave of former TL members will be joining, why not organize a little club that only new (joined only after the Shutdown) members can join a club, called the Teklinks Scavengers, or Survivors or something like that. Any thoughts on organizing something like this? We'd need a banner, for one thing. I think Carth would be the best choice, if she's willing to help out.

But aren't there some people already on here that were from Tech Links? So making a club that only allows the newest Tech Link wanderers might exclude some people...

[Kamekai offline]

Only the survivors, I'd say, old TL members, not-so-much. I dunno, it just sounded cool.

[lyokolady offline]

Well, I didn't really mean old ones...just people who were using both at the same time. *shrug* I dunno...go for it, then. ^^;

[TB3]

I'd like to side with Mew V-Chat/Chad, and say that I think your opinion is a bit off

CL was never hurt by Tech Links' actions - it is aired in 160 countries and it's financial success is solely responsible for Moonscoop growing from little Antefilms into the global-spanning country it is today.

Also, the 'officials' and 'the fans' exist in a delicate balance over online episodes. Consider for example, cl.fr - it is perhaps THE CL website - Moonscoop know it exists and therefore also know that it hosts episodes, but turn a blind eye. It was the same with Teklinks - given how popular it was with CL fans, it's highly unlikely that Moonscoop didn't know it existed, but they allowed it to continue for one reason or another.

What Hikaru did however, is make such a song and dance that that had to take action to save face.

Did you know that she initially appealed directly to Moonscoop and they ignored her. She had to create a big fuss via the Cl.com forums before Moonscoop decided to take action.

--

Regarding the 'legal perspective', yes it is illegal - but so are all of the anime fansubs that I'm sure many of us watch. Unfortunately in the new digital media age copyright laws are becoming increasingly easier to break, or more often tempered by personal viewpoints.

Consider my perspective - I love CL - TL was the only place I could get the english eps from because only Seasons 1 and 2 are broadcast in the UK - given that I watch the show on the TV whenever I can and that I've also brought some merchandise, my actions online do not deprive Moonscoop of any profits, and I feel I have committed no crime.

In fact, it is possible that TL was a boon to Moonscoop - it ensured fans who love the show keep up with it, and thus keeps them in the merchandise-buying demographic. Also consider all the CL fanfiction, artwork, music videos and podcasts on Youtube, Dailymotion and Fanfiction.net that were possible thanks to TL, and which served to advertise the show online, and keep the fans involved.

Historically, the first anime studio to sue a fansub group then found themselves unable to market their products in the US because they no longer had the fansubs acting as free advertising for their stuff.

This is a new era of digital media distribution, and it is an uncharted ground full of navigational hazards - both the creators and the users are trying to make their way through it, and eventually I hope it will lead to a peaceful symbiosis.

[Tangent128 offline]

Would France consider Code Lyoko anime?

Plugging "cartoon" into Babelfish produces "dessin animé", so it's arguable...

[Chad Rains offline]

You all can skip around the facts all you want. And if that is going to be the case, I'm ending my participation on the subject as of right now since I don't feel like repeating myself which I have had to do over the past number of posts to no avail to those who seem to enjoy kissing a** (censoring for Mew) to those who have enjoyed a faux-popularity through their own dumb luck and ignorance.

You all proclaim TL as something as equivalent as the second coming of christ for f*ck sakes! (Apologies to religious types) I'm sorry. Before TL became NEARLY as popular as it has been recently, everyone seemed to be doing perfectly fine at sites such as here at LF and others that had some intelligible life to interact with. NOBODY had a probem getting access to their fan-works and the like.

The only thing TL had going for them was the episode and media downloads and even then, the only reason they had any sort of community, as fractured as it was, is due to FORCING people into making non-spam posts just to download things. Why do you think people wanted the low quality stuff so bad? Because it was the least amount of posts required to download.

Another member here, whom shall remain nameless in this case, said it best:

It's funny how a lot of people are praising TL when actually very few people (the TL staff + a few loyal members = 20-25 persons at best) really gave a s*it about the site (it was all about the episode downloads).

And TB3: You, as well as the rest of a VERY small fraction of users are in the exception in that they openly go out and buy the merchandise even after getting the episodes for free online. Whether it indeed does harm Moonscoop's bottom line or not, it is still a FACT.

Also, I'm tired of everyone referring to CL and other cartoons as 'anime'. Let's have a little schooling here, huh? 'Anime' is the term for Japanese Animation. Meaning Cartoons CREATED in Japan. American cartoons, as much as their style is copied from their japanese counterparts, is NOT anime. They are CARTOONS or, if you want something less derogatory, 'Animation'. Same goes for french animation as well as any other animation-producing country outside of Japan.

Also, I'd wish that CL wasn't equivacolized to Japan animation when referring to stuff like fansubs and dubs. CL has had the PRIVILEGE to be dubbed into additional languages by it's home studio and not outsourced to sub-standard groups like funimation. This is why the english dubs have been aired so close to their french counterparts. Funimation and related companies couldn't care about anything but revenue and take their sweet time on producing whatever dubs they may be working on.

Also, I STILL stand steadfastly by the fact that, regardless how much Moonscoop has looked past much of the 'piracy' of CL, TL has created this attention for themselves by, once again, the blatant copyright infringement (I'm not gonna retype all this over again. You can read one of my past posts in regards to the 'watermarking' they have had their slimey mits in). Regardless of whether it eats into Moonscoop's revenue or not, it still infringes on their IP and they reserve every right to defend that and that is what was done in this case.

Despite what you may want to think and see through your own 'hatred goggles', there is a such thing as MODERATION and ADMINISTRATION on the official forums as well. It's certainly not an exclusive feature to any one specific forum. If Hikaru's claims held no water to begin with, this wouldn't have happened in the first place and she would have just been turned away for a second time and 'dealt with' on the official forums. Fact of the matter is there WAS some truth to that claim which obviously was big enough to upset them (Moonscoop) and make them take action. As much as you want to claim she lied through her a** to shut down TL, I doubt Moonscoop would have even lifted a finger if it wasn't for even a sliver of truth behind the claims.

~

And with all that said, I am done discussing the matter completely. As it is, I don't know why I even came back and started posting on this in the first place since I have long ago turned my back to the community at large and have been absolutely happy for it.

You all can go back to your happy Hikaru bashing and TL mourning now.

[timekitten offline]

Whoa, calm down Chad. You're speaking less and less as a neutral party and more as a TL basher. It is just a site (or should I say was) so no need to get so worked up over a few details concerning its shutdown.

[Exploder offline]

The bottom line is that TL was doing illegal stuff and got shut down. I personally don't like it, but that's the way it goes.

[Malkmusian offline]

Also, this is big within MST3K and Best Brains, Inc, as they turn a blind eye to about every episode of MST3K there is on YouTube.

(That's how a became a fan of it)

[lyoko is great offline]

Well if it wasn't for Tech Links I would Have never been able to keep watching Code Lyoko Because Cartoon Network stopped Showing it here in the UK even though the CITV channel now air it in the UK they just keep showing seasons 1 and 2 again and again. I also thank Tech Links for the Friends i have made Online So thank you Tech Links for being one of the best Code Lyoko Fan Sites on the web. May the the Friendships and the Memory's of Tech Links Live on.

[Jeremified offline]

I'm really leaning towards the idea that Moonscoop didn't care. Often we see members here break the rules slightly, and the punishments described don't take action (for example, I've seen plenty of people with consistent bad grammar who haven't gotten more than a warning). This is similar to how Moonscoop is reacting to TL. Yes, considering Tech Links' size, Moonscoop probably did know about them- they knew TL was hosting the episodes, but they realized that it was indeed getting more people interested, as Mewberries said. I ultimately think Moonscoop was just fine with Tech Links hosting copyrighted episodes.
Of course, I'm being very optimistic about this, and the odds that I'm correct are slim- still, I'd be surprised if Moonscoop does anything more than a request to take down the videos.

[MY85 offline]

Consider for example, cl.fr - it is perhaps THE CL website - Moonscoop know it exists and therefore also know that it hosts episodes, but turn a blind eye.

Before Season 2 aired in France, Moonscoop DID requested LyokoCode to take down the S1 episodes available for downloads.

This is a new era of digital media distribution, and it is an uncharted ground full of navigational hazards - both the creators and the users are trying to make their way through it, and eventually I hope it will lead to a peaceful symbiosis.

That's a very big utopia. sir.

2000 members... hundreds of them banned for whatever reasons the staff had; a good amount of them never got to post; lots of them only posted to get the downloads; some like myself posted there but were turned off by the likes of Vincent, jeremie, etc.; and very few remained loyal to the site.

All the people whining should get a life, period. I can wait for the episode to get hanged on Youtube or Dailymotion nowadays. That should tell you my current opinion of the show.

And the following will be quoted for truth.

Does anyone really care? No. I don't personally know anywhere else to get CL episodes from, but according to other people who posted in this topic there are some, so whoever wants to see them can stop moaning and start googling. Besides, it's only a (fake) anime series. Go find something else to watch. Or even better, do something more interesting than watching TV all day, if you're only going to complain.

You all proclaim TL as something as equivalent as the second coming of christ for f*ck sakes! (Apologies to religious types) I'm sorry. Before TL became NEARLY as popular as it has been recently, everyone seemed to be doing perfectly fine at sites such as here at LF and others that had some intelligible life to interact with. NOBODY had a probem getting access to their fan-works and the like.

The only thing TL had going for them was the episode and media downloads and even then, the only reason they had any sort of community, as fractured as it was, is due to FORCING people into making non-spam posts just to download things. Why do you think people wanted the low quality stuff so bad? Because it was the least amount of posts required to download.