How much longer will the War last?

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

This has bothering me for a while now... How much longer will this war last? It just hit me how many friends I have that are in the army, I also just made a new friend named Joe who is also in the army; he is going to be shipped out in August I don't know where to... But that just made me think, how many friends will I lose to the gods forsaken stupid war... How many more lives will be lost before it comes to an end... I am scared that I will lose the friends that I have that are in the army and the friend I just made... This has been bothering me for a while, but it didn't hit me until tonight when I really started thinking about it... What can we do to make this stupid war end?

Can someone offer me some advice?

[Rail Runner offline]

There isnt much we can do honestly. They will be there until they get what they want, regardless of what the people want or feel.

[. offline]

Barring any more issues in the middle east (I.E. Iran declaring war on someone or some crap like that, because I can't see us going to war with them over just their wanting of nuclear plants) I'd imagine we'll be out of there by the end of the decade. It's just comes down to who wins in November.

Obama wants to call them back ASAP, and it's one of his platforms. The pro of this is it might get some of the negative energy off us from the rest of the world if we pull back and lay low for a while, and of course, boost american morale because our friends/family/children aren't risking their necks for Iraq's well being. Negative of this, ofcourse, is if we leave Iraq unstable politically well.... Germany was pretty unstable and then people where desperate enough to follow Hitler, think of that.

McCain wants us to stay the course a while longer, for the exact reason I mentioned earlier (last thing we need is a dictator that unlike Saddam Hussien isn't a coward and actually put up a real fight), and the negative being that no one wants to fight this war anymore. I think even G.W. said something to the effect of, hindsight being 20/20 we shouldn't of invaded but now were in this situation instead of crying and moaning about what coulda been we should be trying to fix what did now.

"See American's just want peace... And if we can't have peace? Well... Then we blow up the mother****ers that screwed up the peace."-Christopher Titus

[DarkestSoul X21 offline]

The reason we went to war was a lie. Someone at the CIA or whatever told them that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction and he showed them a picture what appears to be a bomb factory but its just a normal factory making goods for Iraq. When we went to war and found Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction, they tried to find the guy who lied to them but they never found him.

[MemoAwesome offline]

I'll never be one of those people who understands why we go to war over anything, but I can say that this war might be neccessary for one reason alone: oil prices.

If we pull out right now without fixing what the US screwed up, who knows how high OPEC could push the price of foreign oil? I know we can drill in the US, but why push an emergency situtaion until it is absolutely neccessary. So in that respect, Bush could be saving us from an even worse crisis. That's why I can't fully hate the guy.

As for the soldiers, they're brave and they're doing exactly what they think they should be doing. Those of us who aren't fighting should fear for them, but hope that they come home safe as well. Don't feel sorry for them, be thankful they're doing this for us. Think of it that way and you'll realize you have some of the bravest friends in the world.

[SilverPrince offline]

As much as I think this war shouldn't have happened at all, the fact is that we can't just pack up and leave instantly. Before we leave, Iraq needs to be able to support itself to some degree. They're already well on the way, and I can't see this war stretching on for a whole lot longer. Perhaps by the end of the decade, or by the end of the new President's next term. I think that they should focus on wrapping up what they're doing now and tying up the loose ends.

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

This whole frickin thing stinks, I have already had friends I went to HS with get shipped out... And now friends who are close to me are going to get shipped out...Dom, Jim, and Joe... This has got to stop soon... I don't want to lose my friends... We shouldn't be shipping more over there...

[JesusFreak offline]

Ok, define "over".



Yanno, we still got troopes in Japan and Germany, rite? If that's how you percieve "over", sorry.


If your ddefinition of "Over" is kick the Terrorists out as much as we can, bring Democracy to an embittered country, and have every politician claim to be tough on the War on Terror (Dumb name, btw), I think Gen. Petraus said that insurgents are fleeing to Pakistan's border or somesuch.


In short, dunno, but I'm praying we get this over with soon.

[TheLQ offline]

The united states has the problem of tring to make every damn country on the planet to be a democracy. With those contries that aren't, if they make one wrong move, we annihalate them. This war though has been compounded by the fact that the middle east has been fighting this war for 1000's of years. Its always been this group vs this group vs this other group. Now we butted in. They see nothing diffrent about us, except we have more firepower. But they have the advatage of long range attacks (IED's and RPG's). It took several years for the military vehicle planers to figure out "Hey, bombs don't work as well on flat surfaces (IE the bottom of an Abrahms tank)" So then they developed a new vehicle, but didn't have the resources to inject every tank platoon with them. So were still being hit by rpg's and ied's and arent doing much about it. The only thing thats mostly fullproof is the striker APC, because it has grills on the side that defeat rpg's. But if the person is a good shot, they can take out the wheels or the turrent, then let off a long burst of AK.

[JesusFreak offline]

I don't really see how this has a point with what exactly we're talking about, but...

The United States has the problem of tring to make every damn country on the planet to be a democracy. With those countries that aren't, if they make one wrong move, we annihalate them.

Yeeeeah...there's a difference in being a Theocracy/Dictatorship and a Theocracy/Dictatorship that has been acting in a way that, if we were referring to the US, would be called Unilateralist. Does everyone forget Sadaam had the UN bring down on him eleven sanctions, whcih he bribed himself out of? ELEVEN SANCTIONS! Oh, and we supported the Shah that got overthrown in Iran and that was an Absolute Monarchy.

This war though has been compounded by the fact that the middle east has been fighting this war for 1000's of years. Its always been this group vs this group vs this other group. Now we butted in. They see nothing diffrent about us, except we have more firepower.

"Then we butted in". Ahem... When we butted in, it was 'cuz of the COLD WAR. It seems everyone forgets the fact that if we didn't "butt in", the Soviets woulda! Just look at Afghanistan.

But they have the advatage of long range attacks (IED's and RPG's). It took several years for the military vehicle planers to figure out "Hey, bombs don't work as well on flat surfaces (IE the bottom of an Abrahms tank)" So then they developed a new vehicle, but didn't have the resources to inject every tank platoon with them. So were still being hit by rpg's and ied's and arent doing much about it. The only thing thats mostly fullproof is the striker APC, because it has grills on the side that defeat rpg's. But if the person is a good shot, they can take out the wheels or the turrent, then let off a long burst of AK.

...

<s> But they have the advatage of long range attacks (IED's and RPG's). It took several years for the military vehicle planers to figure out "Hey, bombs don't work as well on flat surfaces (IE the bottom of an Abrahms tank)" So then they developed a new vehicle, but didn't have the resources to inject every tank platoon with them. So were still being hit by rpg's and ied's and arent doing much about it. The only thing thats mostly fullproof is the striker APC, because it has grills on the side that defeat rpg's. But if the person is a good shot, they can take out the wheels or the turrent, then let off a long burst of AK.</s> So we should just give up, leave the Iranians who don't want to kill us to themselves, dig ourelves shelter, and beg His Excellency Kofi Annan for forgiveness

Fixed.

[Lyoko Wario offline]

I understand how you feel, Virtual Princess. I also have friends in the military that I worry about every day. But it's true that as just a bunch of nerds there's not much we can do to end the problem; there are vast demonstrations that call for an end to the violence, and historically the've done diddly-squat. It's best just to keep our chin up and try to maintain contact with those we care about so they know we still remember then and are rooting for their safety. And I guess if you're old enough you can vote for Obama, who wants to get the troops back. If he wins, there's the possibility that it wasn't political bullcrap and we'll see some improvement in that area.

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

Thanks Planet Cool that is great advice, and I will try to keep it in mind... I vote for Obama... Lets hope that none of our friends come to harm... And try our best to help out...

[. offline]

I don't really see how this has a point with what exactly we're talking about, but...

The United States has the problem of tring to make every damn country on the planet to be a democracy. With those countries that aren't, if they make one wrong move, we annihalate them.

Yeeeeah...there's a difference in being a Theocracy/Dictatorship and a Theocracy/Dictatorship that has been acting in a way that, if we were referring to the US, would be called Unilateralist. Does everyone forget Sadaam had the UN bring down on him eleven sanctions, whcih he bribed himself out of? ELEVEN SANCTIONS! Oh, and we supported the Shah that got overthrown in Iran and that was an Absolute Monarchy.

This war though has been compounded by the fact that the middle east has been fighting this war for 1000's of years. Its always been this group vs this group vs this other group. Now we butted in. They see nothing diffrent about us, except we have more firepower.

"Then we butted in". Ahem... When we butted in, it was 'cuz of the COLD WAR. It seems everyone forgets the fact that if we didn't "butt in", the Soviets woulda! Just look at Afghanistan.

But they have the advatage of long range attacks (IED's and RPG's). It took several years for the military vehicle planers to figure out "Hey, bombs don't work as well on flat surfaces (IE the bottom of an Abrahms tank)" So then they developed a new vehicle, but didn't have the resources to inject every tank platoon with them. So were still being hit by rpg's and ied's and arent doing much about it. The only thing thats mostly fullproof is the striker APC, because it has grills on the side that defeat rpg's. But if the person is a good shot, they can take out the wheels or the turrent, then let off a long burst of AK.

...

<s> But they have the advatage of long range attacks (IED's and RPG's). It took several years for the military vehicle planers to figure out "Hey, bombs don't work as well on flat surfaces (IE the bottom of an Abrahms tank)" So then they developed a new vehicle, but didn't have the resources to inject every tank platoon with them. So were still being hit by rpg's and ied's and arent doing much about it. The only thing thats mostly fullproof is the striker APC, because it has grills on the side that defeat rpg's. But if the person is a good shot, they can take out the wheels or the turrent, then let off a long burst of AK.</s> So we should just give up, leave the Iranians who don't want to kill us to themselves, dig ourelves shelter, and beg His Excellency Kofi Annan for forgiveness

Fixed.

JF your incorrect. We leave, and they want us dead. We stay, and they want us dead even more. It's Lose-Lose.

What pisses me off is that we're not even fighting an actual country, were fighting guerrillas...

[JesusFreak offline]

<Snip>

JF your incorrect. We leave, and they want us dead. We stay, and they want us dead even more. It's Lose-Lose.

What pisses me off is that we're not even fighting an actual country, were fighting guerrillas...

Um...where exactly am I incorrect here?

If we leave them alone, they can get these nasty nuclear weapons and dirty bombs. Just look at Iran! Europe's offering them "negotiations" and Ahmoud Hardlastnametospell is just laughing in their face.

And, we're fighting guerillas who are shipping their butts to Pakistan.

[Lyoko Wario offline]

Arguing over the war won't make Virtual Princess feel any better.

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

No it won't, and Planet Cool you have helped me with my dilema. Thank you...

[Boss Tamsy offline]

I will explain to the best of my Ability.
The reason we are in a war with Iraq can be associated directly with one person:

Dubya

Following the events of 9-11, Dubya sent his trops to Afghanastan to hunt down Bin Laden and his terrorist buddies. For a while we are successful and we actually had Osama cornered. Then Dubya heard tell of some WMDs(weps of mass destruction) in Iraq. Now, his cabinet recommended that we send a small investigative team into Iraq to search for said bombs rather than flat-out invade Iraq and start a major war. Dubya, in all his godforsaken blasted idiocy, decided that he couldn't wait a few months for results and attacked and invaded Iraq, only to later find there were no weapons at all and that he now had sparked the war we are now enduring.

My solution: Offer George Bush to the Iraqis in exchange for peace.

[. offline]

<Snip>

JF your incorrect. We leave, and they want us dead. We stay, and they want us dead even more. It's Lose-Lose.

What pisses me off is that we're not even fighting an actual country, were fighting guerrillas...

Um...where exactly am I incorrect here?

If we leave them alone, they can get these nasty nuclear weapons and dirty bombs. Just look at Iran! Europe's offering them "negotiations" and Ahmoud Hardlastnametospell is just laughing in their face.

And, we're fighting guerillas who are shipping their butts to Pakistan.

By the By, dirty bombs are a poor/ineffective way of spreading radioactivity. Dateline covered this like 7 years ago.

[TheLQ offline]

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M1- ... raq-05013/

...

[JesusFreak offline]

<Snip>

JF your incorrect. We leave, and they want us dead. We stay, and they want us dead even more. It's Lose-Lose.

What pisses me off is that we're not even fighting an actual country, were fighting guerrillas...

Um...where exactly am I incorrect here?

If we leave them alone, they can get these nasty nuclear weapons and dirty bombs. Just look at Iran! Europe's offering them "negotiations" and Ahmoud Hardlastnametospell is just laughing in their face.

And, we're fighting guerillas who are shipping their butts to Pakistan.

By the By, dirty bombs are a poor/ineffective way of spreading radioactivity. Dateline covered this like 7 years ago.

I did not know that. Okay, then, strike dirty bombs off the list.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M1- ... raq-05013/

(Among other things, the link says: American M1 tanks have proven effective in counterinsurgency fights, where their outstanding defenses and the precision fire of their 120mm cannon offer a vital hammer against enemy strongpoints.

What’s new, and different, is that they would also give Iraq a capability it has lacked – the ability to enforce its territorial integrity against incursions from its neighbors.)



...

...?

Good, the Iraqis won't rely on us as much any more.



You know what? Hell with this. This isn't to argue about the war, this is to support Virtual Princess.

I'm sorry I got carried away VP. Please forgive me.

[Lyoko Wario offline]

No it won't, and Planet Cool you have helped me with my dilema. Thank you...

Glad I could help.

[TheLQ offline]

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M1- ... raq-05013/

(Among other things, the link says: American M1 tanks have proven effective in counterinsurgency fights, where their outstanding defenses and the precision fire of their 120mm cannon offer a vital hammer against enemy strongpoints.

What’s new, and different, is that they would also give Iraq a capability it has lacked – the ability to enforce its territorial integrity against incursions from its neighbors.)



...

...?

Good, the Iraqis won't rely on us as much any more.

Have you ever heard of corruption? This right here is aiding and abating the enemy, or sense were are war with iraq, treason. You don't give the enemy a very good tank like the m1. What happens when someone new comes to power, or some terrorist group takes over some? You can throw rpg after rpg at it and you'll only do superficial damage.

Now, i might give iraq an old tank, like a sherman or something. All i would do is put anti-rpg grills on the side, and bam, your now resistant to 1/3 of iraqi gorrila attacks. But giving them an M1 is way to far.

[JesusFreak offline]

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/M1- ... raq-05013/

(Among other things, the link says: American M1 tanks have proven effective in counterinsurgency fights, where their outstanding defenses and the precision fire of their 120mm cannon offer a vital hammer against enemy strongpoints.

What’s new, and different, is that they would also give Iraq a capability it has lacked – the ability to enforce its territorial integrity against incursions from its neighbors.)



...

...?

Good, the Iraqis won't rely on us as much any more.

Have you ever heard of corruption? This right here is aiding and abating the enemy, or sense were are war with iraq, treason. You don't give the enemy a very good tank like the m1. What happens when someone new comes to power, or some terrorist group takes over some? You can throw rpg after rpg at it and you'll only do superficial damage.

Now, i might give iraq an old tank, like a sherman or something. All i would do is put anti-rpg grills on the side, and bam, your now resistant to 1/3 of iraqi gorrila attacks. But giving them an M1 is way to far.

Okay...This is just stupid. We are not AT WAR WITH Iraq. We are at war with INSURGENTS in Iraq.


Say your cousin was Yigal (I know he's not, I'm just making a point). Does this mean YOU don't get to use this forum?

[Phoenix Wolf offline]

My dilema is solved.... Lock please....