Bush...

[kindpastor offline]

Ok... my point was:

Intolernce(sp)+ Religion= Bad

Religion + Idiot= Bad

And if you still don't understand my point.... I can't help you.

Oh I see, so you're saying that al-queada is bad.

[KarinBerry offline]

[quote="kindpastor"][quote="KarinBerry"][quote="kindpastor"][quote="Reesane"]Two points:

1.We atheists sit back ad think “You idiots.â€

[KarinBerry offline]

Ok... my point was:

Intolernce(sp)+ Religion= Bad

Religion + Idiot= Bad

And if you still don't understand my point.... I can't help you.

Oh I see, so you're saying that al-queada is bad.

not <i>just</i> Al-Qaeda. Christians can be stupid and intolerant, too. So can Buddhists. and anyone else.

it's just that "I'm right, you're wrong, and I've got this book to prove it" mentality. religious texts are holy, yes, but only to the believer. They contain truth and wisdom, yes, but only to the believer.

In the end, faith is opinion-based, and to a non-religious person like me, it makes about as much sense as someone starting a war over whether purple is a better color than orange.

the best color is blue, by the way ^_^

[Reesane offline]

Oh, and by the way, we still have Natzis( I have no idea how to spell it) in the USA.

And the relion+idiot thing was amed at bush... and a cople of maniacs at my school.

Fun fact of the day: Most of us know what made it into the Bible, But what about the stuff they edeted(sp) out?

[Darkborn offline]

It's spelled Nazis. I like to call them the "Nationale Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiter-Partei", which is the same thing.

[Max Gene offline]

The mormons broke the polygamy laws, I believe. They were chased out for breaking the law, not just intolerance.

And nothing was edited out of the bible, maybe some stuff was mistranslated but not enough to make much of a difference. Sorry, but nothing was edited out- give me one example of something that was in anything other than one of the new versions- let's stick with KJ and NIV.

[Reesane offline]

Did you know…
That Jesus believed in reincarnation? That was edited out because it didn’t comply with what the church believed in at the time. Also, you don’t watch the history channel, because they had a show called “Band from the Bibleâ€

[Max Gene offline]

With as much political bias as the news networks I'm sure. I can get you some facts over PM sometime about why the bible is reliable, but the point here is Bush, so let's get back on topic, after I post one little fact:

Duh, some things couldn't make it in the bible, some was heresy, and of course we slashed it. Just because some kook wrote something and it wasn't made canon doesn't mean anything was edited. My, some arguments are idiotic...

[MY85 offline]

I have a question to those who live in the States:

Which event made you love or hate Bush? (I'm not taking for an answer like since he arrived for the 1st time)

[KarinBerry offline]

Rodri, I have to say that I liked him before 9/11, and I liked him during the whole thing because he was solid and really, we didn't have much to cling to at the time. It was the invasion, and that first time we started bombing. That was it right there. I came home from work and my mom was sitting on the couch with the tv on, and there was live footage and all these lights, and noises, and it was nighttime there and I just kept thinking about all the people who were being hurt. It didn't seem fair to me.

I'm twenty-five, so I've never seen any other war. I don't know how I'm supposed to feel, and I don't know all the facts, and I don't know what percentage of the population over there is in cahoots with the bad guys. But I know there are some good people over there, and I hate to think that they got hurt or died or lost loved ones because of us.

It's one thing for our soldiers to volunteer to die for our cause. It's another for our soldiers to kill an innocent bystander who didn't volunteer, or may not even want our interference.

It just reminds me of the story in the Bible of Sodom and Gamorrah, where Lot asked God if he'd spare the cities for even ten people. and God said that for ten people, he'd spare the cities. I think that God, if he exists, does not approve of this war, and that the religious right ought to stop clinging to their book and their interpretations of it and to the old laws in the old books.

It goes with everything ever that in order to understand it, you have to have some knowledge of its history. Knowing the old laws were erradicated with the birth of Christ, knowing that the book has been translated from Arimaic (sp?) to Greek to Latin to English, and trusting that words don't lose meaning or change meaning or that the translator won't use a synonym with a slightly different meaning. Knowing that can change the way you read the Bible. It can change the blindness of one's faith. It changes the infallibility of the good book. No doubt, if God exists, the book in the original dead language is infallible. Any generational translation is bunk, in my opinion. If you read the book and take everything at face value, you're not thinking critically about any of it and I won't follow you anywhere.

This all goes into what I'm about to say:

It's not that I dislike Bush.

I dislike what he stands for.

[Max Gene offline]

It's been retranslated enough from scratch and enough manuscripts were made with almost no differences that matter that one can't really accept this argument once they've learned enough as I have in various classes, no matter how it's translated there's never a difference that matters with the older versions, as opposed to the compromising "politically correct" versions, which ARE bunk.

[KarinBerry offline]

My professor helped translate a version of the Bible, and what I gathered from him (and from my class on Christianity to the 1500s) is that the particular version he worked on, the International Standard Version (he's also helped out with updates to the NAS Bible), is the only one where the translators went all the way back to the orginal dead language of Christ when they could.

In my studies of foreign languages, there are always words that can't be translated directly. In French class, I tried to describe myself as a procrastinator, but there isn't a word for that in French, so I ended up calling myself a 'time waster,' or 'lazy person.' I can assure you I am neither, but there isn't really a better way to say it. I asked my teacher to make sure.

So all I'm saying is that translating the Bible, even from the original language, is problematic. Meaning will always be lost, fogged, or muddled, even if it's not intended.

Anyway, this has gotten way off topic. I apologise to the mods for that.

[kindpastor offline]

Oh, and by the way, we still have Natzis( I have no idea how to spell it) in the USA.

And the relion+idiot thing was amed at bush... and a cople of maniacs at my school.If you're going to vote for somebody based on their smarts then bush still trumped kerry, he had better grades than kerry

Fun fact of the day: Most of us know what made it into the Bible, But what about the stuff they edeted(sp) out?

Yeah, the apocyrypha for example--the bible was opriginally hand copied generation after generaion--occosiaonally people would add their one notes or opinions to what they were copying and this would be recopied and recopied etc

It's one thing for our soldiers to volunteer to die for our cause. It's another for our soldiers to kill an innocent bystander who didn't volunteer, or may not even want our interference.

Nobody volunteers to die--this kind of thinking is horribly mistakem--soldiers volunterr to kill--dying is never part of the plan. The majority of the Iraqi's want our "interference" you can find polls that go both ways but if you examine the ones that say they want us out--you find that it is evenly split within the margin of error and that the poll was designed to gain an anti-war headline. You can refer to my previously stated reasons for the invasion of Iraq--societies that promote terror have to be turned into societies that do not

[2 the infirmary! offline]

OK. I am now completely lost on wether i like bush or not.


But... there is a new jib-jab. i just wanted to point that out.
http://www.jibjab.com/Home.aspx

its 2-0-5 year in review!!! best yet.

You may proceed with your argument...

[kindpastor offline]

OK. I am now completely lost on wether i like bush or not.


But... there is a new jib-jab. i just wanted to point that out.
http://www.jibjab.com/Home.aspx

its 2-0-5 year in review!!! best yet.

You may proceed with your argument...

according to the cartoon "there's a special prosectuor after [bush's] friend carl"--this is not really true--the only headway the prosectuor got was an indictment of libby and delay which have yet to turn into convictions. "record profits at the pump" is also misleading as oil companies actually make less money (adjusted for inflation) today than they used to before the EPA's restrictions. Don't think I'm like a hardass over a cartoon but people will watch this and use it as their basis for their poltiical views--I've seen it happen, so I think its only right to set the record straight.

[Omega offline]

And nothing was edited out of the bible, maybe some stuff was mistranslated but not enough to make much of a difference. Sorry, but nothing was edited out- give me one example of something that was in anything other than one of the new versions- let's stick with KJ and NIV.

I am going to answer this from knowledge gained from my stepdad who has studied into many Christian religions:

The story of the Maccabees was, I believe, taken out of the newer bibles for the Mormon religion. It was a rather important story in my opinion. If you ever look at the current bible it's all in one book, however the *complete* Old and New testament would be huge! Imagine all the gospels and things like that.

Furthermore (is that one word?), the King James bible was almost completely rewritten during translation, and rewriting a story as long as that means a lot of lost context.

This may not be completely right, but I believe it is.

P.S. I can't really answer your question completely, as you simply said "the bible." There are many versions of the bible, the Jewish Torah, the Mormon Bible, the Catholic Bible, etc., etc. It's like saying something like "pudding has never been changed." Maybe one flavor hasn't, but I'm sure the others have been. (don't ask about the reason for pudding, first thing that came to mind). If you don't agree, that's fine. Having your own opinion about something is great!


Back on topic, now. Personally, I don't like Bush (new one). It's not what the media says, it's not all the stupid games he makes, it's just my outlook. If I am corect, he basicly started three wars with one speech!!! My best friend's friend had a t-shirt that had a picture of him and said, "Somewhere in Texas, a vilage has lost their idiot." I honestly don't think he's stupid, just.... not right for the job.

On a funnier level, there are two things I would like to list.
1)Google "failure" with the I'm Feeling Lucky button. It's rather comical.
2)Last I checked, I now live in a new country: Amrica. (as GWB says it, anyway)

I may not have the same opinions, or most reliable sources for info, but I am not brainwashed by people saying "George Bush is a complete idiot! Did you hear what he..." My opinions are exactly that: MY opinions.

[kindpastor offline]

I'm sorry--are you saying that the reason you dislike bush is because he started three wars--I think you've got a better reason than that.

[Reesane offline]

Look, kindpastor, things arn't black-and-white. There is more than one dimention to everything (yes, even fruitcakes). Bush should have been a used car sailsman.

I have a new reson to dislike him.... Does anyone know what happend? (hint: it involves wire taps)

[Omega offline]

I remember hearing about that yesterday. He wire tapped about 30 people's phonelines, right? Because they were "Possible Terrorists." Yeah, sure. And my computer is going to turn into a nuclear misile bay.

I'm sorry--are you saying that the reason you dislike bush is because he started three wars--I think you've got a better reason than that.

So you are trying to justify the fact that he did start three wars? None of which are completed? The next thing he could do is say that every single nation in the world has weapons of mass destruction that they want to blow us up with! Then we get WWIII, except we'd be the new Germany! I'm sure Bush is a nice guy to know, but not as a political figure.

[kindpastor offline]

I remember hearing about that yesterday. He wire tapped about 30 people's phonelines, right? Because they were "Possible Terrorists." Yeah, sure. And my computer is going to turn into a nuclear misile bay.Why do you think this was wrong to do? (keep in midn that the phones actually tapped were all on foreign soil--the calls were just made to and from the US, which is perfectally within any intelligence agency's authority during a time of war).---And for a little more perspective keep in mind that cops are already allowed to tap phones when going after suspected criminals--but apparently bush is bad for doing it towards suspected terrorists? Juts clarify that for me.

I'm sorry--are you saying that the reason you dislike bush is because he started three wars--I think you've got a better reason than that.

So you are trying to justify the fact that he did start three wars? None of which are completed? The next thing he could do is say that every single nation in the world has weapons of mass destruction that they want to blow us up with! Then we get WWIII, except we'd be the new Germany! I'm sure Bush is a nice guy to know, but not as a political figure.

Okay, first off I'll need you to name these three wars, I'm only aware of the war with Afghanistan and Iraq--secondly I'll need you to tell me which of these wars you disagree with and why--otherwise I will not understand your position and not be able to have a reasonable discusssion

[JeremysGirl offline]

BUSH IS A COMPLETE IDIOT! How he got elected is beyond me. He sanctioned spying on people and says it will continue! He cut education. He already screwed up my home state, and he's screwing up our country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Delritho offline]

I like Bush and dislike him for a few reasons

Dislikes First
1: He isn't honest about why he went into Iraq(Face it he wanted to finish what his dad started)
2: This wiretapping buisness...If it really helped I wouldn't mind but it serves no purpose besides spying on people who can't even catch the Gopher in there back yard.
3: He doesn't have the balls to admit he just wants a puppet president in the Middle East....

Likes last but not least
1: He is trying to help the people in the middle east by removing people like Sadam from power....
2: He humors us all with his speeches
3: He gives me another reason to laugh.....WHAT! He does.....

Oh and technicaly(SP?) Islam teaches peace and friendship with felow man.But guys like Osama Bin Laden twisted it into somthing that teaches people to kill all those who reject Allah....So yea...Thats all

[MY85 offline]

I remember hearing about that yesterday. He wire tapped about 30 people's phonelines, right? Because they were "Possible Terrorists." Yeah, sure. And my computer is going to turn into a nuclear misile bay.

Not that much ago, some person from Colombia or Ecuador got killed at the Miami airport just because he was suspect of terrorist attack (having a bomb inside his body to blow up a plane)... too many suspects... gee, one of these days something will happen....

And what do you people from the United States think about the treatment of free commercy? (In Spanish, it's called Tratado de Libre Comercio, aka TLC) I hope Peru opposes, otherwise the country will get messed up in the long run... and when Bush came to Peru, it was to threat Toledo to accept the TLC treatment. In Latinamerica, Bush is really hated... I don't mind him that much, but... *thinks about why the poll option didn't had a "not my president alternative" to answer*

[kindpastor offline]

Sigh, so many misguided people, as usual my responses in red

BUSH IS A COMPLETE IDIOT!Why? Because he is not an articulate speaker? I guess this makes William Shakespeare an idiot too How he got elected is beyond me. He sanctioned spying on peopleSo has every president since FDR, you act like he is the first and says it will continue! He cut education.Really? When? Where? This seems like a pretty general statement He already screwed up my home state, and he's screwing up our country!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Proof of this sweeping generalization please, otheriwise I don't beleive you

I like Bush and dislike him for a few reasons

Dislikes First
1: He isn't honest about why he went into Iraq(Face it he wanted to finish what his dad started)If you think Bush lied about Iraq having weapons of mass destruction (let's ignore the fact that sarin, mustard gas, and white phosphous were found) then you have to say that Bill Clinton, Madeline Albright and Colin Powell all lied as well--and were not simply acting on the same faulty intelligence that Bush was (yet Bush gets all the blame for it)
2: This wiretapping buisness...If it really helped I wouldn't mind but it serves no purpose besides spying on people who can't even catch the Gopher in there back yard.Says who? Where did you hear this? I wasn't aware the list of wiretap victims had been released to the public
3: He doesn't have the balls to admit he just wants a puppet president in the Middle East.... And how do you know he wants a puppet president? He's never said "I want tigers on the moon" am I to assume he "doesn't have the balls to admit" that he does or that he really doesn't. What I want to know is why you think this.

Not that much ago, some person from Colombia or Ecuador got killed at the Miami airport just because he was suspect of terrorist attack (having a bomb inside his body to blow up a plane)... too many suspects... gee, one of these days something will happen...You obviously only read the headline of this stroy or heard about it from an unreliable source--this story was reported many places, I was amazed at the amount of facts left out many of the articles I read, including:


1.The man claimed he had a bomb
2The man assualted the Air marshall

If a man claiming he had a bomb in his carry on suddenly ran at you with it--well I don't know what you personally would do in that situation. BTW it turns out this guy had bi-polar disorder--I've got a friend with the same thing and he ALWAYS takes his pills--unlike this individual who felt the need to skip them.


And what do you people from the United States think about the treatment of free commercy? (In Spanish, it's called Tratado de Libre Comercio, aka TLC) I hope Peru opposes, otherwise the country will get messed up in the long run... Hrmm--well that's fine--Free commerce is essentially what has made the United States the best country in the world--if Peru doesn't want in you can continue to be what you currently areand when Bush came to Peru, it was to threat Toledo to accept the TLC treatment. In Latinamerica, Bush is really hated... I don't mind him that much, but... *thinks about why the poll option didn't had a "not my president alternative" to answer*

[Reesane offline]

Stupid Quote: "If you don't disarm, we will." - Bush