School and Computers

[TheLQ offline]

I have never seen the point of a school firewall blocking websites! You dump $500 on a shiny new server and some blocking program and what do kids do? They find proxy's! So what have you accomplished? Nothing! People actually spend more time finding proxys than doing thier work. Why not just let people get on those blocked sites, and then tell them to do their work? Finding proxy's takes time, and then when they finnaly get on myspace, they spend alot of time on it because they havn't been on in a while. Schoosl are fighting an uphill battle. There is no way that they can block all of the proxy sites.

Now i can understand some blocks. Porn is a bit unacceptable in school, and besides, it a bit obvious. But all of that other shit that they block, most of it is pointless. They block perfectly legimate sites, and ususally don't work anyway.

If school could just remove the filters, they would save themselves some time, money to pay for the program, possibly a server, etc. People would also pay attention in class, because myspace would get old real quick. Games would be boring, and people would just pay attention because there's nothing else to do.

[JesusFreak offline]

... I don't know, but that reminds me of this quote from some Democrat I can't remember:

"I'm sure people will find a way to use guns respectably if we get rid of the NRA."

I butchered that...

[ODDCHEEZY offline]

He he. Totally guilty. Don't worry about it. No offense to any adults on the site but if they'd try to put themselves in our shoes then they'd see that they should remove the firewalls and other systems like B.E.S.S. for example. But that also creates another problem. Kids will become bored and will start getting into mischief.

[timekitten offline]

Biggest flaw of that logic: Boredom is the reason people get on the Internet, not off. There is always something more entertaining on the Internet.

Porn is not the only reason they block a site. Viruses and spyware can come from game sites you think is legit. I once helped a teacher whenever she needed up perform the virus scans and such. The computers I seen kids playing games at were loaded down with spyware compared to others. There's also high bandwidth sites, like youtube and other streaming sites, who would slow down the whole campus network. Big time.

[TheLQ offline]

But my school has gone a step farther with the computers. They have installed keyloggers on all of the computers. So, anytime you logon to something, they know your password. Now i know that your going to say to just not login to said site. Well, i would like to check my mail from school and not have to worry about people knowing my passwords.

They also know your account password. Windows (supposidly) encrypts passwords stored on its server. Well, teachers require you to check your school email. And whats the password to it? Your school account!

Peograms like thease give IT people way too much knowledge about you. They shouldn't be able to check your personal email, logon to personal forums (like this one) with your acccount, and so on. Just because i'm a minor dosn't mean that i don't have any right to privacy. Thats just wrong.

[JesusFreak offline]

Actually, schools have the right to do said stuff. I suggest you read Bill O'Reilly's Kids are Americans Too. That's the book where he doesn't try to be "hip".

[. offline]

Actually, schools have the right to do said stuff. I suggest you read Bill O'Reilly's Kids are Americans Too. That's the book where he doesn't try to be "hip".

cause it's perfectly okay to limit children to the roles of second class citizens based soley on age. THEREFOR they deserve restricted rights in this country. Yeah I totally get it.

[Reesane offline]

What my area's local high schools have realized is that a good 10% of the upper class men (not including the ones taking the advanced computer coding courses) have the knowhow to disable almost anything the school tech people through at them.

This means that my school has no sitter programs on the computers.

You should probably point out to the school that key loggers and similar malware programs are a security threat to the school computer system, even if they are legitement.

[JesusFreak offline]

Actually, schools have the right to do said stuff. I suggest you read Bill O'Reilly's Kids are Americans Too. That's the book where he doesn't try to be "hip".

cause it's perfectly okay to limit children to the roles of second class citizens based soley on age. THEREFOR they deserve restricted rights in this country. Yeah I totally get it.

Gawsh, READ THE DANG BOOK! I'm not the best at explaining stuff.


Still, minors don't have the same legal status as adults for a reason, and the school has the right to create an environment where they can teach.

[TheLQ offline]

We shouldn't though be forced to get bad grades in a class because of privacy issues.

Ok, when your in 8th grade, you fill out your scedual(don't ask me to spell that) card. Then, in your first days of being a freshman, you then get your aup(acceptable use policy). Now lets say you've taken a computer class and you don't agree with something on there. Or you think that keyloggers, syncroneyes, and school blocks are sh*t and don't sign it. Now whats going to happen to that grade in computer class? F! What are you going to get on that paper you need to type? D! Whats going to happen when the teacher requires you to use a school computer for something? F! You are now getting bad grades in classes because you don't like the school's computer policy.

Now, lets say you sign that AUP. Yes, you get good grades on school assignments, but at the expense of some of your privacy rights. Thats not right.

Now, you might be wondering why you cna't just get out of that computer class. Well, the school says that you can only change if you have two of the some class, or are switching levels in a class. Other than that, you can't convince the counsulurs to change your scedual.

[Reploid CB]

You know, there are other options for using computers with lack of a home system. A public library, a friend's house, and a cyber cafe all come to mind.

That being said, PLEASE change your sig banner, or risk losing it. It's far too wide and is very screen stretching.

[TheLQ offline]

You shouldn't have to do that though. You should be able to use school computers knowing that your privacy isn't being violated.

Also, that way dosn't work if you have a computer class. If you have a computer class you can either a) accept it, loose your privacy rights, and get an ok grade or b) decline it, protect your rights, and get a big fat F on your report card.

[timekitten offline]

Funny thing about this is it's the privacy vs security issue. And the gov't has made it clear is perfectly alright to lose privacy in the name of fighting terrorists. But I disgress.

The Internet is not worth failing a class (and maybe even school?). This paper you have to sign in class pertains only in class (and will be for all computer classes). Unless it's schoolwide, but it really doesn't matter. Besides, the only reason they do this is so they can find out who did something illegal. They only check if they think you're doing something WRONG.

Otherwise, they don't really CARE. They have better things to do, like come up with cruddy uniform policies and other rules to restrict student freedoms, cutting time inbetween classes to make bathroom trips impossible, finding a lower bidder for cafe food, and determining thousands of ways to cut school budget for fat paychecks.

If you're really concerned about them happening to steal your password and checking your email (or whatever), don't talk or do anything too personal or illegal with your email. If you stop fighting it and stop trying to do stuff you're not even suppose to do in school (ya know, things other than paying attention and learning. Learning, which is the point of school. The reason why they make all these dictatorship rules, so children can learn without being distracted with mindless and non-productive FLASH games students would forget 10 minutes after finishing them), maybe you'll realize this really isn't a big deal.

And hey, they have a right to do this, to monitor their toys. It's their things, their equipment their spending hundreds of dollars on buying. They want to make sure nothing bad or wrong is being done with them. If it was MY computer I spent hundreds of dollars buying, heck yeah I'd want to use things like keyloggers and what not (if only I knew how >_>). It's MY computer, and I don't want some kids coming around and using MY computer like it's a cheap thing for their entertainment instead of using it for what I said they could use it for. Playing games on sites that sneak bugs, downloading p0rn, or doing anything else that's illegal. Several ways a person can ruin a computer, so of course I'd want to know what they're doing!

But bottom line here, this isn't your toy, it's THEIRS. And you don't really have a right to using THEIRS toys in the first place. They give YOU the privilege of using THEIR toys so you may learn/do something productive for class. You do not have the right to spending your social and Internet life on their toys.

All the AUP does is say 'Just to let you know, we're monitoring you to make sure you're not doing anything bad with OUR toys. If you want to use our computers, agree with our terms. Otherwise, I don't want you using our toys because you'll probably use if for something bad (that goes without saying since why would someone object if they weren't doing anything bad?)'

Now, lets say you sign that AUP. Yes, you get good grades on school assignments, but at the expense of some of your privacy rights. Thats not right.

Yes I did, and I didn't care because I didn't do anything wrong (eh, nothing to cause trouble with anyway). We all had to sign those sheets. Did any of the students care about it? Not really. Did it stop some from doing what they did? Not really. Whether they signed or didn't, it made no difference, they'll still be monitored by the school.

All the sheet does is make it legal if a case of controversy did arrive about online school computer use. They'll still watch and find whoever did something wrong (like who's computer printed these pictures of a naked lady). Suck it up, there are similar agreements to sign, not just school. Heck, libraries have a unspoken agreement that if you get on their computer, you automatically comply to the terms and agree with being monitored.

Anyway, back to school, much of my last year was devoted to goofing off in class. I checked my email, logged on to forums, and took advantage of the fact they had photoshop (oh sweet photoshop, how I miss you) to make some graphic skills. And nobody really cared about me because I paid attention in class, did my work first, and got straight A's. Heck, in my on programming class, I still did my online forums/sites/email. But only after I finished my work and did it during my freetime. And the teacher saw and didn't care! As for some other students who learned absolutely nothing and did zero work so they could spend time online playing games, you bet they received the fire because they were failing.

Good students = Model students for the school, who without saying, get privileges and leeway in class

Bad students = What the heck are they doing instead of learning in class? Start watching them and make sure they do their work, so they'll pay attention, stop failing, and causing budget cuts because of the number of failed students!


--
And...this is a rant produced from the years of hatred I gained from listening to students whine about not being able to have free range to do WHATEVER they want, and making admins to make rules to make sure they can't keep abusing things (ultimately punishing the many for the few). Not to say school administrators aren't turning into ridiculous tyrants these days in the name of a 'perfect' school (Dang you high school principal #4! For getting rid of those senior privileges I waited THREE freakin' years to enjoy!!!).

And not saying your a bad student either, cause I don't really know much about you. Just pointing out the other side of the spectrum here.

And if you didn't at least try to read it, I will be a sad and annoyed kitty, cause I wasted what little sleep time I had left after the time change typing this up. Sleepless morning, here I come. Ahhh, I haven't gotten in a good rant like that in along time.

[TheLQ offline]

School is a requirement set by the goverment. You are required to go to school. In some classes, you are required to use a school computer. I have no choice. I can't skip school, or skip using school computers, it just won't happen. In your example of your own computer, sure, i would install anti-abuse programs, because someone isn't required to use that computer.

Also, our IT people and our teachers don't care if your passing or getting good grades, if your on myspace, its bye bye account for 30 days. I have a 95 in computer apps, and the teachers still yells at me for bypassing every single block that syncroneyes and surf control can dish out. She still yells at me for even checking this forum.

The thing with the AUP though; they don't tell you what security programs they installed. You just simply find out when you do something wrong, or a teacher tells you. I didn't know about syncroneyes for about 2 months, untill the teacher locked the screen. I didn't know about keyloggers untill a teacher told me about them. Surf Control is a bit obvious, but they still didn't tell me about them. If you want me to prove it to you, then click here

People might accpt the aup, i actually did (though in the dark), but i think that its ludacris that schools can get away with looking over your shoulder at any time, knowing exactly what your doing, reading your email, checking your forums, doing everything that they can to know as much about you.


I also don't get why schools spend hundreds of dollars on shiny new servers and the best software, when it dosn't work. There are ways to get around everything.