Franz Hopper and Xana

[TaskForceLyoko offline]

I know it's generally accepted here that Franz Hopper is an ally of Team Lyoko, but the man has always been suspect to me. The show tells us he is Xana's prisoner on Lyoko. However, while as a prisoner he has shown a great deal of power, even more than Xana at times.

He was able to activate a tower and possess Sissi. - Contact
He was able to wrest control of a tower away from Xana. - Revelations
He was able to take control of Xana's monsters. - The Key
He was able to restore Aelita's memories and revive her. - The Key
He was able to restore Lyoko. - The Key

His comment in his diary of going to Lyoko with Aelita to be its masters is also odd.

Is it possible that Xana may be part of Franz Hopper? Perhaps the constant RTTP's and his work on the scanners caused a rip in his consciousness, and the trip into Lyoko with Aelita "tore the fabric". That part of him, the one he had suspected of watching him, separated and became Xana's sentience.

[DELETED offline]

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[TaskForceLyoko offline]

No, doubt it.
Franz Hopper is proably "stored" somewhere on the supercomputer like where Jeremie put his diaries, but only assessable to XANA.
And Franz is proably in a state of unconsiousness like when Jeremie made Yumi send him to Lyoko in Season 1.

Also, for crying out loud, he definately has powers like the ones you said, because he built it and can access it in his "deep sleep somewhere on the supercomputer.

There is nothing that suggests Franz Hopper is in a state of unconsciousness. In fact, his actions show otherwise. He sought out the kids and made contact. He took control of the decoding tower right before Xana could access Jeremie's area. He took control of the mantas right when Ulrich and Aelita needed them. He restored Aelita's memories and Lyoko when needed. All these actions suggest that not only was he conscious, but aware of everything that was transpiring.

And if Hopper had these powers, then how did he become Xana's prisoner? Or why does he remain Xana's prisoner when he has shown to have greater power? And why would Aelita, who was intended to rule Lyoko with him, not have these powers as well? Everything we've seen would make Franz Hopper Lyoko's god, rather than a virus' prisoner locked away unconscious.

[Chad Rains offline]

He was able to restore Aelita's memories and revive her. - The Key
He was able to restore Lyoko. - The Key

These 2 took place after XANA was freed from the super computer so he was no longer "trapped" at this point. I say these points are irrelevant to the discussion.

[animenologist offline]

I know it's generally accepted here that Franz Hopper is an ally of Team Lyoko, but the man has always been suspect to me. The show tells us he is Xana's prisoner on Lyoko. However, while as a prisoner he has shown a great deal of power, even more than Xana at times.

He was able to activate a tower and possess Sissi. - Contact
He was able to wrest control of a tower away from Xana. - Revelations
He was able to take control of Xana's monsters. - The Key
He was able to restore Aelita's memories and revive her. - The Key
He was able to restore Lyoko. - The Key

His comment in his diary of going to Lyoko with Aelita to be its masters is also odd.

Is it possible that Xana may be part of Franz Hopper? Perhaps the constant RTTP's and his work on the scanners caused a rip in his consciousness, and the trip into Lyoko with Aelita "tore the fabric". That part of him, the one he had suspected of watching him, separated and became Xana's sentience.

I agree with my predecessors that your logic doesn't make as much sense as you think. Its possible that Hopper used his own conciousness as a basis for XANA, but no evidence came up to support it. Not say that it won't, a lot of theories from Let's talk tech changed once the new bit of evidence from Revelation and The Key turned a lot of our theories upside down. But to focus on your 5 main points stating that Franz Hopper was more powerful than XANA:

1. Jeremy has been able to activate his own tower before and used it to possess Odd. Doesn't mean Jeremie is more powerful than XANA. Even with Hopper's tower, he couldn't summon defenses and Sissi was a weakling compared to XANA's normal possesses. That doesn't scream power to me.

2. In Let's talk tech, we have a theory that Aelita and Hopper each contain half the keys to Lyoko, though in terms of evidence its the least conclusive. I think that we mainly believe this because despite having Hopper, XANA still required Aelita. If Hopper had the full key, Aelita should be disposable, but she wasn't. So when they're together, they have a full key, in which case they have near omnipotence on Lyoko. Its partially how we believe Hopper wrestled control away from XANA, through combining his keys with Aelita's.

3. And Aelita can deactivate his towers. In the greater scheme of things, it was a minor accomplishment. Although Hopper could take control of monsters, he still couldn't predict, prevent, or stop the entire room from caving in on itself, leaving Aelita defenseless. The fact that he couldn't save his daughter until after XANA left is an odd one if he was stronger than him.

4&5. I take these 2 together because the reason for their invalidity is the same. XANA was gone. He had the keys and now got the heck outta Lyoko. Now more XANA leaves a power vacuum and Hopper was their to fill it.

Really, if Hopper was as strong as you believe him to be, he wouldn't have been missing for the 2 years after the gang found him. It took him 2 years to get out a SOS, that's not exactly a good showing of power.

But again, it is all possible and who knows what the writers will do. For 51 episodes, we thought Aelita was a virtual creation and for 26, we thought a virus is what binded Aelita to the supercomputer. They could throw us for a loop again and you may be right. But the evidence to support the idea is inconclusive at this point.

[LadyChaos offline]

1. Jeremy has been able to activate his own tower before and used it to possess Odd. Doesn't mean Jeremie is more powerful than XANA. Even with Hopper's tower, he couldn't summon defenses and Sissi was a weakling compared to XANA's normal possesses. That doesn't scream power to me.

Sissi wasn't possessed for power reasons. She was possessed to make contact with Jeremie and the gang. That doesn't really require power, not the fighting power you're talking about.

As for this theory, it's interesting; but I kinda doubt it. I think Hopper is somewhere stuck on Lyoko because of XANA but was able to get away from him for a short while. Maybe XANA has been too fanatical in getting Aelita and failed to keep a good enough watch on his prisoner.

Rose

[TaskForceLyoko offline]

He was able to restore Aelita's memories and revive her. - The Key
He was able to restore Lyoko. - The Key

These 2 took place after XANA was freed from the super computer so he was no longer "trapped" at this point. I say these points are irrelevant to the discussion.

The discussion isn't about what Hopper was capable of only in captivity, but what he's capable of. Even freed, how did he know where Xana kept Aelita's stolen memory? How was he able to restore Lyoko when it seemed Xana pulled the plug on it? It still illustrates the level of power Hopper had.

1. Jeremy has been able to activate his own tower before and used it to possess Odd. Doesn't mean Jeremie is more powerful than XANA. Even with Hopper's tower, he couldn't summon defenses and Sissi was a weakling compared to XANA's normal possesses. That doesn't scream power to me.

Jeremie did not do it while as a prisoner. At this point in time, Hopper still was, presumably. Without entering the tower like Aelita, without using a terminal to the supercomputer like Jeremie, and as a prisoner of Xana he was able to activate a tower and create a specter. At the very least this puts him on par or greater than Xana in his abilities.

2. In Let's talk tech, we have a theory that Aelita and Hopper each contain half the keys to Lyoko, though in terms of evidence its the least conclusive. I think that we mainly believe this because despite having Hopper, XANA still required Aelita. If Hopper had the full key, Aelita should be disposable, but she wasn't. So when they're together, they have a full key, in which case they have near omnipotence on Lyoko. Its partially how we believe Hopper wrestled control away from XANA, through combining his keys with Aelita's.

The problem is they weren't together. Hopper was still Xana's prisoner at this time. Yet he was able to take over the tower from Xana without any apparent aid or connection to Aelita, or even having to be there. It's well established that the keys were split between Hopper and Aelita and Xana needed her if you ignore the whole first season. But why did Xana keep Hopper alive? He already had Hopper's set of keys - being a prisoner and having the jellyfish mind sucker. Your theory just doesn't hold any water.

3. And Aelita can deactivate his towers. In the greater scheme of things, it was a minor accomplishment. Although Hopper could take control of monsters, he still couldn't predict, prevent, or stop the entire room from caving in on itself, leaving Aelita defenseless. The fact that he couldn't save his daughter until after XANA left is an odd one if he was stronger than him.

Again, the issue for this particular point was that he could take control of Xana's monsters while as a prisoner.

4&5. I take these 2 together because the reason for their invalidity is the same. XANA was gone. He had the keys and now got the heck outta Lyoko. Now more XANA leaves a power vacuum and Hopper was their to fill it.

And Hopper not only knew exactly where Aelita's stolen memories were, but had enough power to kickstart Lyoko - something he would not have needed to do while Xana was still there. Xana or no Xana, that takes some serious ju-ju.

Really, if Hopper was as strong as you believe him to be, he wouldn't have been missing for the 2 years after the gang found him. It took him 2 years to get out a SOS, that's not exactly a good showing of power.

Considering he likely didn't even exist in concept during the first season, that would explain the first year. And the point wasn't that Hopper was as strong or stronger than Xana, it was that he may be Xana, or part of him.

To be honest, I don't really support that theory even though it's mine. It's a little much for a kids show. What I'm trying to point out is that something about Hopper doesn't smell right.

[DELETED offline]

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[animenologist offline]

He was able to restore Aelita's memories and revive her. - The Key
He was able to restore Lyoko. - The Key

These 2 took place after XANA was freed from the super computer so he was no longer "trapped" at this point. I say these points are irrelevant to the discussion.

The discussion isn't about what Hopper was capable of only in captivity, but what he's capable of. Even freed, how did he know where Xana kept Aelita's stolen memory? How was he able to restore Lyoko when it seemed Xana pulled the plug on it? It still illustrates the level of power Hopper had.

1. Jeremy has been able to activate his own tower before and used it to possess Odd. Doesn't mean Jeremie is more powerful than XANA. Even with Hopper's tower, he couldn't summon defenses and Sissi was a weakling compared to XANA's normal possesses. That doesn't scream power to me.

Jeremie did not do it while as a prisoner. At this point in time, Hopper still was, presumably. Without entering the tower like Aelita, without using a terminal to the supercomputer like Jeremie, and as a prisoner of Xana he was able to activate a tower and create a specter. At the very least this puts him on par or greater than Xana in his abilities.

2. In Let's talk tech, we have a theory that Aelita and Hopper each contain half the keys to Lyoko, though in terms of evidence its the least conclusive. I think that we mainly believe this because despite having Hopper, XANA still required Aelita. If Hopper had the full key, Aelita should be disposable, but she wasn't. So when they're together, they have a full key, in which case they have near omnipotence on Lyoko. Its partially how we believe Hopper wrestled control away from XANA, through combining his keys with Aelita's.

The problem is they weren't together. Hopper was still Xana's prisoner at this time. Yet he was able to take over the tower from Xana without any apparent aid or connection to Aelita, or even having to be there. It's well established that the keys were split between Hopper and Aelita and Xana needed her if you ignore the whole first season. But why did Xana keep Hopper alive? He already had Hopper's set of keys - being a prisoner and having the jellyfish mind sucker. Your theory just doesn't hold any water.

3. And Aelita can deactivate his towers. In the greater scheme of things, it was a minor accomplishment. Although Hopper could take control of monsters, he still couldn't predict, prevent, or stop the entire room from caving in on itself, leaving Aelita defenseless. The fact that he couldn't save his daughter until after XANA left is an odd one if he was stronger than him.

Again, the issue for this particular point was that he could take control of Xana's monsters while as a prisoner.

4&5. I take these 2 together because the reason for their invalidity is the same. XANA was gone. He had the keys and now got the heck outta Lyoko. Now more XANA leaves a power vacuum and Hopper was their to fill it.

And Hopper not only knew exactly where Aelita's stolen memories were, but had enough power to kickstart Lyoko - something he would not have needed to do while Xana was still there. Xana or no Xana, that takes some serious ju-ju.

Really, if Hopper was as strong as you believe him to be, he wouldn't have been missing for the 2 years after the gang found him. It took him 2 years to get out a SOS, that's not exactly a good showing of power.

Considering he likely didn't even exist in concept during the first season, that would explain the first year. And the point wasn't that Hopper was as strong or stronger than Xana, it was that he may be Xana, or part of him.

To be honest, I don't really support that theory even though it's mine. It's a little much for a kids show. What I'm trying to point out is that something about Hopper doesn't smell right.

Hopper is Lyoko's creator. So of course he will have an understanding greater than that of the kids. Just because he's able to do fantastic things with it, doesn't mean he's more powerful than XANA. While in captivity he had limited capacity. But the fact that even though he was so powerful, he was capatured and contained for 2 years say something.

1. He has limited power, that he just managed to get out after so many years of imprisonment, possibly due to interference from the kids. So he activated a tower, he still didn't use its resources to full capacity. So he didn't use the console, that is not the only way to do things. In fact, Aelita was able to hack outside systems without the use of a tower or the console, does that make her as strong or stronger than XANA?

2.

Ulrich attempts (and fails) to stop this by isolating the tower from the network (cutting the cables), until Hopper takes control of the tower, forcibly ejects XANA, and brings the decoding program up to full speed.

This leads me to a possibility. The forty-first tower in Carthage may well be the point where Hopper is/was contained, or the access point to his prison, thus why XANA activated it in Franz Hopper in order to build his simulation from it.

Aelita entering into this tower not only shut down XANA's program, but (unbeknowst to herself and unexpected by XANA) allowed Hopper a fleeting moment of interaction with his daughter when she entered the Lyoko code. By breifly completing the keys to Lyoko in this manner, Hopper (for the first time in 12 years) gained the ability to make small sorties from his prison via the towers, as seen in 'Contact'.

He made another in 'Revelation,' and grew in strength from connecting with Aelita through the towers - this also explains why the program sped up, as Hopper was able to use the reasources of his tower to speed the process.

This was one of our theories from LTT concerning the occurrences of Revelation. Describes how Hopper was able to get some minor interaction with Aelita to complete the keys to take over the tower.

3. This goes back to what I hinted at earlier, just because he's a prisoner doesn't mean he's void of power. There have been stories of criminal masterminds running organizations from federal imprisonment. 3 criminals from Alcatraz was able to plan an escape by using rain coats and glue to create a rubber raft and floating off in the darkness. The fact that he was in captivity may have nothing to do with his power but certain weaknesses in XANA's security that made itself obvious after the events of Franz Hopper, since he obviously couldn't do anything before that.

4&5. They were also 2 things Hopper wouldn't have needed to do had Hopper saved Aelita in time. Again he is the creator of Lyoko, and Carthage probably has more power and control over Lyoko than the console, so why not use it, now that the former controller is gone.

As for Hopper being part of XANA or is XANA, part of your evidence and reasoning is that Hopper is as strong as XANA, which he's not. If Hopper is XANA, then a lot of their actions makes little sense. Like in Contact, XANA tried desperately to get rid of Sissi, but than why bother possessing her in the first place if she was going to be gotten rid of. If his real reason for leaving the supercomputer is to rule the world, it would have been better to leave Aelita for dead to weaken the team, not bring her back to life so that she may interfere. And throughout Season 1, XANA has tried very hard to kill her. You yourself have said you don't really support your own theory. Here's my reasoning why I don't support it neither.

[TaskForceLyoko offline]

The problem with your theory of the forty-first tower is that it's one based on convienence rather than evidence. Hopper's "prison", Hopper and Aelita's interaction, and even how the keys to Lyoko work are all assumptions unsupported by anything we've been shown or hinted at. And without it, all your explanations of how Hopper was capable of breaching Xana's security no longer have a leg to stand on.

Your analogy of criminal organizations and federal imprisonment is also flawed, because you are basing it upon our prison system rather than what Xana is capable of. Xana doesn't have to feed him, let him sleep, give him privacy, observe any of his rights, etc. It also doesn't explain why Xana kept Hopper alive for so long. As for Aelita hacking outside systems, I believe she mentioned she could do it like Xana, and was simply not shown due to it being mundane and unnecessary production costs.

Something about Hopper just isn't kosher. Or perhaps I'm giving the show's writers a little too much credit. Maybe Hopper is just another Deus ex machina.

[oddsgrlfriend offline]

I have the feeling that XANA is conected to Aelitas mother in some way. The therory about Hopper being XANA may not be probable but it's still possible.

[Taelia offline]

Like, he may have killed her?

[Mewberries151]

His comment in his diary of going to Lyoko with Aelita to be its masters is also odd.

I think that might be chalked up to the stereotypical "Scientist's ego complex". Because he created Lyoko and because Man (particularly the stereotypical scientist that assumes he understands what makes the world work) naturally likes to assume that he has dominion over all that he sees, as a scientist, he might see it as his "right" to rule Lyoko.

I think it's important to remember that Hopper had suffered the loss of his wife (death or otherwise). He'd also been recently persecuted for whatever reason, likely for his work on Lyoko and his counter-attacks against that communications program. Lyoko probably looked like a really good escape to him. A place where he could live peacefully with his daughter without fear of anyone coming after them. A land that he had thought he had complete control over. A world where nothing could go wrong. A world without danger.

*record scratch* ...Woah, that was schmaltzy... ^^;

[oddsgrlfriend offline]

Like, he may have killed her?

Not really. I mean I think they may be one and the same. XANA may be Aelita's mothers memory or something. XANA doesn't really have a true form so it may be possible. May be XANA is out to get revenge on Hopper by killing Aelita and destroying his lifes work. Then the group came along and got in the way. So now XANA is after them.

[oddlauren offline]

1. Jeremy has been able to activate his own tower before and used it to possess Odd. Doesn't mean Jeremie is more powerful than XANA. Even with Hopper's tower, he couldn't summon defenses and Sissi was a weakling compared to XANA's normal possesses. That doesn't scream power to me.

Sissi wasn't possessed for power reasons. She was possessed to make contact with Jeremie and the gang. That doesn't really require power, not the fighting power you're talking about.

As for this theory, it's interesting; but I kinda doubt it. I think Hopper is somewhere stuck on Lyoko because of XANA but was able to get away from him for a short while. Maybe XANA has been too fanatical in getting Aelita and failed to keep a good enough watch on his prisoner.

Rose

the last paragraph makes sense. who knows? besides the writers i mean.