You don't know why, but you just do....

[animenologist offline]

Though I share the opinion with you Mewberries, that a well-done confession done later, is better than a sloppy "I love you" and bam, they're an item, done sooner, I wish it would actually come sooner. The thing is, other than some minor increases in their thresholds of tolerance due to both of their lack of action, the relationship has been fairly static, unlike Code: Lyoko's other canon couple Jeremie/Aelita, which has undergone change. Despite all the obviousness of their feelings towards each other (so big it can be seen from space and about as subtle as a trainwreck), little has moved forward. It would be nice to have some change or more tangible development, something to show that its moving forward.

Even some of the other relations that took a while had something else going on in the background. Take for example your Kim Possible example. Even though it took 65 episodes and a movie to finally get there, it wasn't completely "does he/she like me?" back and forth ackwerdness. For the 1st Season and a half, they actually had other romantic interests and truly saw each other as only friends. Kim from the first episode had an infatuation with Josh Mankey, while Ron was this dateless loser on outskirts of the social badlands, until the introduction of Zita and then continued with Yuri. The idea of being a pair actually was discomfertable to them, as seen in the episode where he wanted to introduce himself to Zita and didn't want to be seen in front of her with Kim, otherwise he would look like he was taken. There was change, there was dynamics, the was something going on.

Or take another of my favorite romances, not yet fullfilled. In Futurama, Fry started seeing Leela as a friend, and at one point admitted his love for her out loud. But when thats not working, he seeks outlets, other people to keep him company. He's had a few girlfriends even while pursuing Leela, including Morgan Proctor, his ex-girlfriend Michelle, a robotic copy of Lucy Lieu, and fellow co-worker Amy Wong. Same with Leela, dating other people, not having a constant "does he like me?" angst trip for 5 seasons and actually have valid reasons for not taking him up on his interest (he's an idiot prone to insentive actions, despite good intention).

I don't really think Yumi had much to worry about in the first place with Sissi, so I'm not entirely seeing that whole she's grown more tolerant of Ulrlch hanging around Sissi thing, and to tell you the truth, she didn't really get all that made about his actions concerning Sissi in Season 1. The only points of concern where she was jealous of Sissi was in Big Bug, when she confided with Jeremie about potential feelings Ulrich may have for Sissi, and in Frontier, when Ulrich did what some wish to remain unsaid, to get Yumi out of suspension and get her to the factory to help Jeremie (which is arguably uncalled for). Ulrich has expressed outloud a great disdain for Sissi, insulted her and turned her down outright, and is publicly mean to her. Her tolerance hasn't really increased all that much, since she had little to worry about before hand. Though I'd bet 5 bucks if she did find out what happened on the bridge in Ultimatum, she'd erupt like Krakatoa.

Compare that with Ulrich, where William is friendly with her, she hasn't outright told William in front of the gang her disinterest in being romantic, and she has accepted his Valentines to spite Ulrich just because Ulrich seemed happy about having a few good tickets to his favorite band thrown upon his lap. Even though Yumi from our view has definatively chosen Ulrch, she doesn't let Ulrich know where they stand. All he knows is William isn't Yumi's boyfriend yet, but neither is he and probably in the same spot he was since Season 1.

And really, thats all I wish to see, something tangible where they're moving forward, some change. Doesn't have to be a big time confession, where they finally date, but something that carries on. Swarming Attack is not acknowledged, only a passing thought of a practical joke. Cold War, though a powerful scene, does absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things and in terms of their relationship, is hollow. We can feel Ulrich's desparation, his pain, his anguish, but with a return trip to the past, its all gone, never to be brought up again. Yumi doesn't know about it, and Ulrich will still continue to dodge it.

[Activated Tower offline]

I don't dislike any character except TV (thank you for mentioning him, Mew; I hadn't been thinking about him before that), but since he's only in Cold War, I don't tend to think of him very often.

[Rail Runner offline]

mew...I dont think Ulrich is emo, but he definitely does have a dark attitude sometimes...especially when it comes to Yumi..I think Ulrich is just confused.

As far as the TV guy, yeah, I definitely dont like him, hes got an ID-10-T problem. he is such a jerk...wasnt there a guy similar to him in another episode...like a movie guy or something.

[Activated Tower offline]

Yeah, Finson (sp?). He appeared in End of Take.

[Rail Runner offline]

yeah, thats him, thats the one I was thinking of...thanks AT..Finson was so conceded, thinking that he was the best movie guy and everything.

[Mewberries151]

Though I share the opinion with you Mewberries, that a well-done confession done later, is better than a sloppy "I love you" and bam, they're an item, done sooner, I wish it would actually come sooner. The thing is, other than some minor increases in their thresholds of tolerance due to both of their lack of action, the relationship has been fairly static, unlike Code: Lyoko's other canon couple Jeremie/Aelita, which has undergone change. Despite all the obviousness of their feelings towards each other (so big it can be seen from space and about as subtle as a trainwreck), little has moved forward. It would be nice to have some change or more tangible development, something to show that its moving forward.

*snickers* That was a fantastic way of putting their feelings for each other. X)

I'm not so sure, the relationship has gone static though...more that season 2 seemed to focus so much more on Jeremie and Aelita than those two, as well as more on the fight against XANA as opposed to what the kids do outside of a general XANA situation (which season 1 touched on much much more, I think). There was some moving forward in "Missing Link". Yumi had bought tickets for a concert for the both of them to go to together. Now while, I wouldn't call that a date, that certainly sounds like an effort the two of them are making to spend more time together. Yumi gave her tickets though to Sissi, as an act of kindness and gratitude, so the date didn't really happen...but the idea was there. Had they gone to the concert together...eh, who knows? But they have been trying to spend time together and the like. Their efforts just keep getting interrupted. The same goes for "The Key". Yumi planned to ask Ulrich to the dance, but both Ulrich's faux pas and Jeremie's plan to get Aelita's memories back burst that idea bubble.

In all fairness, it seems that they've been trying to...they just keep getting thwarted at it...whereas no one (with the exception of Odd really) ever interrupts the one on one time that Aelita and Jeremie can share together, whether it be working on the anti-virus, or doing a project together (an option not open to Ulrich and Yumi due to their difference in grades).

Also, I would argue that a growth of tolerance in a relationship is just as important as the couple moving "forward" tangibly. Knowing that they'll love each other no matter who or what comes against them, is a very important element in a successful relationship, I'd think. ^_^

I don't really think Yumi had much to worry about in the first place with Sissi, so I'm not entirely seeing that whole she's grown more tolerant of Ulrlch hanging around Sissi thing, and to tell you the truth, she didn't really get all that made about his actions concerning Sissi in Season 1. The only points of concern where she was jealous of Sissi was in Big Bug, when she confided with Jeremie about potential feelings Ulrich may have for Sissi, and in Frontier, when Ulrich did what some wish to remain unsaid, to get Yumi out of suspension and get her to the factory to help Jeremie (which is arguably uncalled for). Ulrich has expressed outloud a great disdain for Sissi, insulted her and turned her down outright, and is publicly mean to her. Her tolerance hasn't really increased all that much, since she had little to worry about before hand. Though I'd bet 5 bucks if she did find out what happened on the bridge in Ultimatum, she'd erupt like Krakatoa.

Yumi used to be very protective of Ulrich interacting with any girl of any kind, not just Sissi. In "Routine", she blew things rather far out of proportion, simply because Ulrich was talking with another girl...who wasn't even Sissi. Also, in "LogBook", she seemed slightly bothered by the idea of Ulrich talking with Sissi and the same goes for "Amnesia". Also, in "XANA's Kiss", she was none to happy at the revelation of "Ulrich kissing Sissi", though admittedly she did not react as explosively about it as in "Frontier", which I think does point to her having gained far more control over her jealous tendencies.

Had Yumi still had the same amount of tolerance about Ulrich kissing Sissi in "XANA's Kiss" as she had in "Frontier"...I think she would have ultimately been much more angry about witnessing it directly in front of her (particularly since "Ulrich" didn't seem at all ashamed about it). Instead though, she just seemed angry and hurt, but not to the point of stalking over to Ulrich and demanding an explanation right then and there as she had in "Routine". I think that would count as a gaining of tolerance and control to a certain degree indeed.

Compare that with Ulrich, where William is friendly with her, she hasn't outright told William in front of the gang her disinterest in being romantic, and she has accepted his Valentines to spite Ulrich just because Ulrich seemed happy about having a few good tickets to his favorite band thrown upon his lap. Even though Yumi from our view has definatively chosen Ulrch, she doesn't let Ulrich know where they stand. All he knows is William isn't Yumi's boyfriend yet, but neither is he and probably in the same spot he was since Season 1.

"St. Valentines Day" for me, is the last time Yumi let her jealous tendencies get the best of her. Afterwards...nothing that Ulrich and Sissi happen to do makes her go all green-eyed and furious as it used to, which again seems to point to her maturing about their relationship and gaining tolerance about Sissi and Ulrich being at the very least "friendly".

I don't think Yumi has to tell William in front of the gang that she's not interested in having a romantic relationship with him. That would be terribly humiliating for William to be turned down like that in public, which is likely why Yumi hasn't done that and has tried either to tell Ulrich privately ("New Order") or clue William in privately ("A Bad Turn" and "The Key"). Unfortunately...neither of them have taken the hint (or her word for it), which leaves Yumi in a rather sticky situation, none of it being her fault.

I also disagree that Yumi doesn't ever give Ulrich any clues as to where they stand. "TeddyGozilla", "LogBook", "Swarming Attack", "Routine" are all really big mile markers in their relationship, and most of them center on something Yumi either does or says to Ulrich. In "TeddyGozilla" they go to a dance together. "LogBook", Ulrich offers to share his diary with her someday, which she says she'd like (showing she wants to share things with him and be there for him). "Swarming Attack", Yumi literally tells Ulrich, that they have a very deep and strong friendship and that he shouldn't let whatever's happened get in the way of it. "Routine"...sort of speaks for itself, and also gives some insight as to why they aren't so open about their feelings for each other as Jeremie and Aelita are. Who they're trying to fool...I don't know, but it's a possible theory as to why.

Season 2, again has lots of Yumi dropping Ulrich hints. "New Order", right off the bat, has her trying to reassure him that William is a "friend". "Final Mix", they again go to a dance together (again more proof that their relationship is not static...that's a "date", isn't it?). "Missing Link" same thing. "A Bad Turn" had lots of hints (except that Ulrich was being a bit too irritable to listen properly). Fast-forward to "The Key" and I'd have to say that Yumi drops hints to Ulrich quite a bit...except that he doesn't catch them all the time, and alot of them are very subtle. ^^;

And really, thats all I wish to see, something tangible where they're moving forward, some change. Doesn't have to be a big time confession, where they finally date, but something that carries on. Swarming Attack is not acknowledged, only a passing thought of a practical joke. Cold War, though a powerful scene, does absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things and in terms of their relationship, is hollow. We can feel Ulrich's desparation, his pain, his anguish, but with a return trip to the past, its all gone, never to be brought up again. Yumi doesn't know about it, and Ulrich will still continue to dodge it.

"Swarming Attack", I disagree merely for the reasons I said above, in that Yumi's whole long speech about the strength of their friendship was something that I think Ulrich must keep locked away somewhere (if not then surely he's written it in his diary).

"Cold War"...we're not sure if Yumi heard what he said or not. It's unlikely, but there is that slight chance that she did. Plus, while Ulrich would certainly dodge it...we were never shown precisely what happened after the RTTP (only a scene sometime after it, as Odd would have needed at least a few minutes to set up that prank with Rosa). I doubt Yumi would let Ulrich dodge something like that for too long...she likely confronted him close to, if not directly after the RTTP, at the very least to let him and the others know she hadn't died. Plus...Ulrich has a way of dwelling on things until they really start to eat at him. What happened in "Cold War" could easily resurface later (and would actually make for an interesting episode), through nightmares...a flashback, or any number of plot devices should the scriptwriters choose to. Whether or not it's ever mentioned again is ultimately up to them.

And again, I think there's lots of tangible evidence about their relationship, even in season 2. It just gets glazed over in the grander scheme of things. "Final Mix", "Missing Link", "A Bad Turn", "The Key"...all of them have really good instances of those two trying to act like a couple. At least, I think so. ^^

[animenologist offline]

*snickers* That was a fantastic way of putting their feelings for each other. X)

I'm not so sure, the relationship has gone static though...more that season 2 seemed to focus so much more on Jeremie and Aelita than those two, as well as more on the fight against XANA as opposed to what the kids do outside of a general XANA situation (which season 1 touched on much much more, I think). There was some moving forward in "Missing Link". Yumi had bought tickets for a concert for the both of them to go to together. Now while, I wouldn't call that a date, that certainly sounds like an effort the two of them are making to spend more time together. Yumi gave her tickets though to Sissi, as an act of kindness and gratitude, so the date didn't really happen...but the idea was there. Had they gone to the concert together...eh, who knows? But they have been trying to spend time together and the like. Their efforts just keep getting interrupted. The same goes for "The Key". Yumi planned to ask Ulrich to the dance, but both Ulrich's faux pas and Jeremie's plan to get Aelita's memories back burst that idea bubble.

In all fairness, it seems that they've been trying to...they just keep getting thwarted at it...whereas no one (with the exception of Odd really) ever interrupts the one on one time that Aelita and Jeremie can share together, whether it be working on the anti-virus, or doing a project together (an option not open to Ulrich and Yumi due to their difference in grades).

Also, I would argue that a growth of tolerance in a relationship is just as important as the couple moving "forward" tangibly. Knowing that they'll love each other no matter who or what comes against them, is a very important element in a successful relationship, I'd think. ^_^

I would say that nothing much has changed since Season 1, imo. Yumi's purchasing of tickets could of much been like Ulrich asking Yumi to the annual prom in Teddygozilla (prior to the attack and the subsequent return to the past), a vague friendly gesture supposedly from our view to get each others attention, but can just as easily gone on like every other attempt they have to be together, maintaining the status quo of "just being friends."

The interrupts themselve are sometimes self-caused, due to hesitation, just not coming to the moment. They could of just spent some time alone during lunch, where they eat together away from their friends and spend some time talking or atleast between classes, but Yumi hanging around William during those times doesn't help the situation.You can't really think that just because Jeremie called in on them during "The Key", that they couldn't of atleast buried the hatchet and remove all doubts. Just say flat-out that absolutely no other person they like in the romantic sense. May not be boyfriend/girlfriend yet, but atleast they know their is no other.

Yumi used to be very protective of Ulrich interacting with any girl of any kind, not just Sissi. In "Routine", she blew things rather far out of proportion, simply because Ulrich was talking with another girl...who wasn't even Sissi. Also, in "LogBook", she seemed slightly bothered by the idea of Ulrich talking with Sissi and the same goes for "Amnesia". Also, in "XANA's Kiss", she was none to happy at the revelation of "Ulrich kissing Sissi", though admittedly she did not react as explosively about it as in "Frontier", which I think does point to her having gained far more control over her jealous tendencies.

Had Yumi still had the same amount of tolerance about Ulrich kissing Sissi in "XANA's Kiss" as she had in "Frontier"...I think she would have ultimately been much more angry about witnessing it directly in front of her (particularly since "Ulrich" didn't seem at all ashamed about it). Instead though, she just seemed angry and hurt, but not to the point of stalking over to Ulrich and demanding an explanation right then and there as she had in "Routine". I think that would count as a gaining of tolerance and control to a certain degree indeed. Happy

To be fair, in Amnesia and Logbook, they were all a bit weirded out with Ulrich hanging around Sissi. In fact, it was Jeremie and Odd who made the first move to get an explanation out of him in Logbook, of which Jeremie promptly explained to Yumi and everything cleared up (don't know what Albert Einstein did to her though that she had to go and punch him in the face).

Well we can't really be sure what would happen if Yumi saw Ulrich intereacting with another girl. Emily was the only girl friendly to him other than Sissi, which Ulrich has made clear as day his feelings concerning her. We won't exactly be sure how much Yumi's tolerance have evolved until another Emily comes along. Jealousy from "XANA's Kiss" could of been placed in doubt because a lot of weirdness going on, since "Yumi" kissed Mathias Durell earlier, as well as the odd "Jeremie" kissing Heidi Klinger .

Really I think Yumi has it easier than Ulrich in discerning interest with their rivals. William isn't Yumi's Sissi. Sissi has been told off and Ulrich's disdain for her is as obvious as his love for Yumi. William is not Sissi, its more like a continuous Emily. William is friendly with Yumi, has expressed romantic interest with William that Yumi will not directly turn down.

"St. Valentines Day" for me, is the last time Yumi let her jealous tendencies get the best of her. Afterwards...nothing that Ulrich and Sissi happen to do makes her go all green-eyed and furious as it used to, which again seems to point to her maturing about their relationship and gaining tolerance about Sissi and Ulrich being at the very least "friendly".

I don't think Yumi has to tell William in front of the gang that she's not interested in having a romantic relationship with him. That would be terribly humiliating for William to be turned down like that in public, which is likely why Yumi hasn't done that and has tried either to tell Ulrich privately ("New Order") or clue William in privately ("A Bad Turn" and "The Key"). Unfortunately...neither of them have taken the hint (or her word for it), which leaves Yumi in a rather sticky situation, none of it being her fault.

I also disagree that Yumi doesn't ever give Ulrich any clues as to where they stand. "TeddyGozilla", "LogBook", "Swarming Attack", "Routine" are all really big mile markers in their relationship, and most of them center on something Yumi either does or says to Ulrich. In "TeddyGozilla" they go to a dance together. "LogBook", Ulrich offers to share his diary with her someday, which she says she'd like (showing she wants to share things with him and be there for him). "Swarming Attack", Yumi literally tells Ulrich, that they have a very deep and strong friendship and that he shouldn't let whatever's happened get in the way of it. "Routine"...sort of speaks for itself, and also gives some insight as to why they aren't so open about their feelings for each other as Jeremie and Aelita are. Who they're trying to fool...I don't know, but it's a possible theory as to why.

Season 2, again has lots of Yumi dropping Ulrich hints. "New Order", right off the bat, has her trying to reassure him that William is a "friend". "Final Mix", they again go to a dance together (again more proof that their relationship is not static...that's a "date", isn't it?). "Missing Link" same thing. "A Bad Turn" had lots of hints (except that Ulrich was being a bit too irritable to listen properly). Fast-forward to "The Key" and I'd have to say that Yumi drops hints to Ulrich quite a bit...except that he doesn't catch them all the time, and alot of them are very subtle. ^^;

St. Valentines Day was also one of the last showings of romance Sissi had done that was public to Yumi until the events of The Key. Hard to get jealous over something that you don't know about or even happened. Only times I can think of is Final Mix, where Ulrich was obviously annoyed, Ultimatum where Yumi wasn't there, XANA's Kiss, which was either unknown by Yumi or with a fake Ulrich, and Is Anybody Out There? which again, Yumi didn't know.

I think it would be better to let him down, than lead him on. By not letting William know outright, even in private between Yumi/William "I don't love you", he's not going to go away. It wouldn't be a public humiliation if he lets it in private, nor if she just tells the gang away from prying ears of their fellow peers. Having them just continue, just because she won't give it to them loud and clear, is partially her fault for not making it clear for them as it is Ulrich and William for not taking a hint.

Again, I think the markers aren't much if they're not going to go anywhere with it. The obvious has been noted and clues are dropping left and right, but they don't do anything with it. Routine didn't end their jealousy towards others, as St. Valentines has shown, and despite their "very deep and strong friendship and that he shouldn't let whatever's happened get in the way of it", it didn't stop the events of Frontier or Routine from happening. It's like crossing the line into an actual relationship or atleast knowing there is no other is like crossing no-man's land in the 1st World War. You may be able to run across it and make some progress, but eventually you'll be pushed back.

You can call it dropping hints, I consider it beating around the bush, dodging what needs to be done and drawing a line in the sand that will just be erased and forgotten with the wind. Final Mix could easily be considered Teddygozilla. Actually I would consider it weaker. An annual prom, which Yumi actually dressed up for, is better than a fairly impromptu dance where the place of meeting was decided the day before and no one dressing up.

"Swarming Attack", I disagree merely for the reasons I said above, in that Yumi's whole long speech about the strength of their friendship was something that I think Ulrich must keep locked away somewhere (if not then surely he's written it in his diary).

"Cold War"...we're not sure if Yumi heard what he said or not. It's unlikely, but there is that slight chance that she did. Plus, while Ulrich would certainly dodge it...we were never shown precisely what happened after the RTTP (only a scene sometime after it, as Odd would have needed at least a few minutes to set up that prank with Rosa). I doubt Yumi would let Ulrich dodge something like that for too long...she likely confronted him close to, if not directly after the RTTP, at the very least to let him and the others know she hadn't died. Plus...Ulrich has a way of dwelling on things until they really start to eat at him. What happened in "Cold War" could easily resurface later (and would actually make for an interesting episode), through nightmares...a flashback, or any number of plot devices should the scriptwriters choose to. Whether or not it's ever mentioned again is ultimately up to them.

And again, I think there's lots of tangible evidence about their relationship, even in season 2. It just gets glazed over in the grander scheme of things. "Final Mix", "Missing Link", "A Bad Turn", "The Key"...all of them have really good instances of those two trying to act like a couple. Happy At least, I think so. ^^

Swarming Attack didn't help them with Routine, Frontier, or St. Valentines Day. What good is their deep friendship if it can be broken apart so easily, especially since Yumi's speech didn't help her get over Frontier which was done out of necessity. Whether Cold War will resurface is anyone's guess. But unless it does, I'm just going to assume not. Until than, its Swarming Attack or Routine or St. Valentines Day all over again. One step forward, and the road moving back. I still don't see tangible change really, its still two friends who love and continue to make it obviously known to everyone else, but them. Just because isolated events happen, doesn't matter if the changes doesn't keep.

[SamBlob offline]

In "Routine", she blew things rather far out of proportion, simply because Ulrich was talking with another girl...who wasn't even Sissi.

Sissi blew it out of proportion by telling Yumi that Ulrich and Emily had been seeing each other for two months. Her two pronged attack didn't quite work; she succeeded in getting Yumi out of the picture, but her attempt to pry Ulrich away from Emily was a dismal failure, as pointed out by no less than Herb!

[Rail Runner offline]

Herb pointing out Sissi's failure frustrated Sissi, and that made me laugh a bit. But, wasnt Ulrich just talking to Emily about something else, when Sissi told Yumi that lie? Routine should be playing sometime in the near future, so I will watch it and see if I cant recall the events a bit better, with all the action of season 2, season 1 just kinda slipped from my mind.

[Mewberries151]

I would say that nothing much has changed since Season 1, imo. Yumi's purchasing of tickets could of much been like Ulrich asking Yumi to the annual prom in Teddygozilla (prior to the attack and the subsequent return to the past), a vague friendly gesture supposedly from our view to get each others attention, but can just as easily gone on like every other attempt they have to be together, maintaining the status quo of "just being friends."

Just my own personal observations...I've yet to see any two people be able to go to something together (most especially a dance) and at least not have it inferred that they are an "item" by the rest of the public who knows them. "Just being friends", simply is not something one would be able to maintain by going to a dance together, because the concept of that doesn't really exist in the pop generation mindset now. Unless one is actually related to the person, someone's always going to accuse you of being a couple (and even then, you might get some very strange looks). If Yumi and Ulrich were intent on keeping up appearances as "just friends", they'd have stuck more with the group as a whole instead of just going with each other more or less like in "Final Mix".

Also...Yumi asked Ulrich out, I believe in "TeddyGozilla". Seeing as how Ulrich says, "I kind of promised to go with Yumi", it can be guessed that Yumi asked him and he agreed to go, which makes sense in terms of character because Ulrich's very shy about things like that. So again, going back to one of the original arguements, Yumi has been dropping hints. Asking someone to a dance is a pretty "forward" action in terms of general teen society now, I believe.

The interrupts themselve are sometimes self-caused, due to hesitation, just not coming to the moment. They could of just spent some time alone during lunch, where they eat together away from their friends and spend some time talking or atleast between classes, but Yumi hanging around William during those times doesn't help the situation.You can't really think that just because Jeremie called in on them during "The Key", that they couldn't of atleast buried the hatchet and remove all doubts. Just say flat-out that absolutely no other person they like in the romantic sense. May not be boyfriend/girlfriend yet, but atleast they know their is no other.

The both of them are very shy though, and they still seem to be trying to hide their affections for each other from the general school body (and with Milly and Tamiya around, I can't say I'd blame them). ^^ This might be why they don't do things like eating lunch alone together or something along those lines.

Also, there has really been only one known instance of Yumi hanging out with William during lunch or otherwise, and that was in "Uncharted Territory" where she sat down to eat lunch with him. However considering that Ulrich, Odd and Jeremie were all at the Hermitage, and Yumi was not aware that Aelita was behind her and lonely, sitting with William is not so unusual or shady a thing to do. Sitting by oneself at lunch is no fun, and Yumi is friends with William (more or less how she's friends with Odd or Jeremie but not romantically involved). So sitting with William is just about the same as her sitting with just Odd or Jeremie at lunch.

I do agree with you that they sometimes bring the interruptions on themselves though. ^^ But they're both rather shy about things like that, so hesitations are going to happen. Shyness, particularly about relationships, is not so easy a thing to conquer, particularly when one considers that Yumi and Ulrich are both "loners" by nature.

To be fair, in Amnesia and Logbook, they were all a bit weirded out with Ulrich hanging around Sissi. In fact, it was Jeremie and Odd who made the first move to get an explanation out of him in Logbook, of which Jeremie promptly explained to Yumi and everything cleared up (don't know what Albert Einstein did to her though that she had to go and punch him in the face).

Well we can't really be sure what would happen if Yumi saw Ulrich intereacting with another girl. Emily was the only girl friendly to him other than Sissi, which Ulrich has made clear as day his feelings concerning her. We won't exactly be sure how much Yumi's tolerance have evolved until another Emily comes along. Jealousy from "XANA's Kiss" could of been placed in doubt because a lot of weirdness going on, since "Yumi" kissed Mathias Durell earlier, as well as the odd "Jeremie" kissing Heidi Klinger .

Really I think Yumi has it easier than Ulrich in discerning interest with their rivals. William isn't Yumi's Sissi. Sissi has been told off and Ulrich's disdain for her is as obvious as his love for Yumi. William is not Sissi, its more like a continuous Emily. William is friendly with Yumi, has expressed romantic interest with William that Yumi will not directly turn down.

Ahh, but what about now? Sissi has been about as friendly as William, perhaps considerably more so, in season 2. Given that Yumi was rather jealous all the same about Sissi in season 1, I think she could easily feel just as threatened by Sissi now as Ulrich does with William. But Yumi doesn't seem to let it bother her anymore, because, as I believe, she now understands that Ulrich really does have feelings for her. I believe she may just be waiting for him to get past his jealousy of William

St. Valentines Day was also one of the last showings of romance Sissi had done that was public to Yumi until the events of The Key. Hard to get jealous over something that you don't know about or even happened. Only times I can think of is Final Mix, where Ulrich was obviously annoyed, Ultimatum where Yumi wasn't there, XANA's Kiss, which was either unknown by Yumi or with a fake Ulrich, and Is Anybody Out There? which again, Yumi didn't know.

There is "Missing Link" though, where she has absolutely no issues with sending Ulrich and Sissi off to a concert together. If that isn't tolerance and trust, I don't know what is.

I think it would be better to let him down, than lead him on. By not letting William know outright, even in private between Yumi/William "I don't love you", he's not going to go away. It wouldn't be a public humiliation if he lets it in private, nor if she just tells the gang away from prying ears of their fellow peers. Having them just continue, just because she won't give it to them loud and clear, is partially her fault for not making it clear for them as it is Ulrich and William for not taking a hint.

But considering William's character and the fact that I believe she's let him know several times about herself and Ulrich in some way (judging by "New Order"), he won't take a hint even if it hits him with the force of a minivan. William's getting to the point of pedantic about his relationship with Yumi. He obviously knows that Yumi has chosen Ulrich, "A Bad Turn", and whether he's discerned this on his own, or Yumi actually told him, the fault still lies with him for not accepting the fact. It's precisely the same problem Sissi still has in that she keeps pursuing after Ulrich, fully aware that he's not romantically interested in her. The same is true with William. It's not Yumi's fault that no matter how clear she makes it, he can't give it up.

Plus...I don't think anyone should be obligated to share every single change in their lovelife, even if it's with their friends. Sometimes, things need to be kept only to those who physically need to know. Kadic is not the most private of places, and on Lyoko there's too much happening to try and tell anyone anything really.

Again, I think the markers aren't much if they're not going to go anywhere with it. The obvious has been noted and clues are dropping left and right, but they don't do anything with it. Routine didn't end their jealousy towards others, as St. Valentines has shown, and despite their "very deep and strong friendship and that he shouldn't let whatever's happened get in the way of it", it didn't stop the events of Frontier or Routine from happening. It's like crossing the line into an actual relationship or atleast knowing there is no other is like crossing no-man's land in the 1st World War. You may be able to run across it and make some progress, but eventually you'll be pushed back.

But again, I believe "St. Valentines' Day" was the last time Yumi let her jealousy get in the way of their relationship. She doesn't bat an eyelash at Ulrich and Sissi doing things together or remotely being friends any time after that, and I highly doubt she would have acted the same way in season 1. She's matured and gained a better understanding of things.

You can call it dropping hints, I consider it beating around the bush, dodging what needs to be done and drawing a line in the sand that will just be erased and forgotten with the wind. Final Mix could easily be considered Teddygozilla. Actually I would consider it weaker. An annual prom, which Yumi actually dressed up for, is better than a fairly impromptu dance where the place of meeting was decided the day before and no one dressing up.

Alright, although the fact that it is a "dance" that they both went to doesn't change no matter how informal or formal it is which ties into what I said earlier about going together to a dance and how it's generally going to be perceived. The fact that Yumi didn't dress up for the one in "Final Mix" might also be a thing the animators just chose not to do. "TeddyGozilla" was the first episode and they experimented with alot of things that didn't always reoccur in later episodes (alternate outfits being one of them).

"Swarming Attack", I disagree merely for the reasons I said above, in that Yumi's whole long speech about the strength of their friendship was something that I think Ulrich must keep locked away somewhere (if not then surely he's written it in his diary).

"Cold War"...we're not sure if Yumi heard what he said or not. It's unlikely, but there is that slight chance that she did. Plus, while Ulrich would certainly dodge it...we were never shown precisely what happened after the RTTP (only a scene sometime after it, as Odd would have needed at least a few minutes to set up that prank with Rosa). I doubt Yumi would let Ulrich dodge something like that for too long...she likely confronted him close to, if not directly after the RTTP, at the very least to let him and the others know she hadn't died. Plus...Ulrich has a way of dwelling on things until they really start to eat at him. What happened in "Cold War" could easily resurface later (and would actually make for an interesting episode), through nightmares...a flashback, or any number of plot devices should the scriptwriters choose to. Whether or not it's ever mentioned again is ultimately up to them.

And again, I think there's lots of tangible evidence about their relationship, even in season 2. It just gets glazed over in the grander scheme of things. "Final Mix", "Missing Link", "A Bad Turn", "The Key"...all of them have really good instances of those two trying to act like a couple. Happy At least, I think so. ^^

Swarming Attack didn't help them with Routine, Frontier, or St. Valentines Day. What good is their deep friendship if it can be broken apart so easily, especially since Yumi's speech didn't help her get over Frontier which was done out of necessity. Whether Cold War will resurface is anyone's guess. But unless it does, I'm just going to assume not. Until than, its Swarming Attack or Routine or St. Valentines Day all over again. One step forward, and the road moving back. I still don't see tangible change really, its still two friends who love and continue to make it obviously known to everyone else, but them. Just because isolated events happen, doesn't matter if the changes doesn't keep.

Yumi's speech did not cover Ulrich actually going and kissing another girl though nor did it really cover him showing affections for another girl. Their friendship and their relationship aren't always intertwined (as weird as that sounds). I took her speech to mean that their friendship was stong enough to not be torn apart by nasty tricks on Sissi's part nor any other kind of trick by anyone else. "Frontier" was no trick on Sissi's part in all actuality. Ulrich proposed the idea and Ulrich made the action, and willingly. The fact that he was doing it for Yumi is still not going to make it sit very well with her. There's also the added thing that they wouldn't be able to see eachother for a month. While an RTTP fixes the deal...the fact that it did happen once is still there.

"Routine" was a partial trick on Sissi's part in that she instigated the idea that Ulrich had been seeing someone else for two months without telling Yumi or anyone else. While Yumi probably should have known better than to trust anything Sissi said to her, with Ulrich standing right in front of her talking to another girl (I still have yet to decifer exactly what they were talking about), and due to the fact that as much as she doesn't want to admit it, she could get jealous over him, the evidence was there that Ulrich possibly was deciding to break off their "relationship".

At any rate, I can still see a serious amount of change in Yumi's tolerance of Sissi from "St. Valentine's Day" on. And there's a subtle but definite amount of change in the nature of Yumi and Ulrich's relationship too. I would still almost put forth that one of the reason's Yumi and Ulrich's relationship seems static in season 2, is that the viewers really don't see as much of them interacting as opposed to season 1 and in comparison to Jeremie and Aelita (who have always seemed to dominate in terms of "togetherness" time whether Aelita be in Lyoko or out). It's a definite possibility....

[Skorpigeist offline]

"Routine" was a partial trick on Sissi's part in that she instigated the idea that Ulrich had been seeing someone else for two months without telling Yumi or anyone else. While Yumi probably should have known better than to trust anything Sissi said to her, with Ulrich standing right in front of her talking to another girl (I still have yet to decifer exactly what they were talking about),

I just wanted to pipe up on this little section. I think Ulrich was just being friendly and even possibly flirting with Emily, because in an earlier scene when they met out in the halls he wondered if she had an interest. It wouldn't be out of the nature for a teenage boy to "play the field" so to speak. He was probably just trying to talk to boost his morale because he was down due to everything always "feeling the same." Emily would have provided a needed outlet and he was just having innocent conversation. the conversation might have been about class or music

I think the second time ,however, after the Return to The Past that they were still having the friendly conversation, but he might have made mention of Yumi (not anything that would be obvious of course but her name come up, and he was even looking at her slightly while talking to Emily) at the end of the scene Emily says "ain't love grand" as she tosses her hair and walks off. So it was something enough that she noticed how they were acting toward each other. and that Mewberries is my .02 cents (take it in euros, its worth more) on what they were talking about

[LadyLucy offline]

Holy heck, ppl like to quote...

Sissy is mean. Not evil, and I'm sure she has a good side. But all in all, basicly, she is a useless, rude, sluttly daddy's girl who taints the air of kadic acadamy.

[Rail Runner offline]

*lucy, we are cool...but please dont use that sl word, just in case younger kids might be reading the forum*

Sissy is stuck up, that I can definitely agree on. She runs to her dad for every little thing..I would never trust her as far as I could throw her. I wonder if she will calm down in Season 3, just as she sorta has in Season 2.

[animenologist offline]

Just my own personal observations...I've yet to see any two people be able to go to something together (most especially a dance) and at least not have it inferred that they are an "item" by the rest of the public who knows them. "Just being friends", simply is not something one would be able to maintain by going to a dance together, because the concept of that doesn't really exist in the pop generation mindset now. Unless one is actually related to the person, someone's always going to accuse you of being a couple (and even then, you might get some very strange looks). If Yumi and Ulrich were intent on keeping up appearances as "just friends", they'd have stuck more with the group as a whole instead of just going with each other more or less like in "Final Mix".

Also...Yumi asked Ulrich out, I believe in "TeddyGozilla". Seeing as how Ulrich says, "I kind of promised to go with Yumi", it can be guessed that Yumi asked him and he agreed to go, which makes sense in terms of character because Ulrich's very shy about things like that. So again, going back to one of the original arguements, Yumi has been dropping hints. Asking someone to a dance is a pretty "forward" action in terms of general teen society now, I believe.

Guess I have different personal observations than. I've went to a dance and did a few (5 or so) slow dances with my best friend's sister in high school. Haven't been inferred by anyone that we were dating or considered an "item". We were both single people showing up, so it technically wasn't pre-meditated. But 2 friends dancing at a school dance does not automatically equate dating.

And two friends going on a date to the dance isn't, imo, a strong indication that 2 "just friends" are suddenly "an item", either. My best friend had a date to the prom, and the relationship was hardly anything serious and quickly dissolved. Basically think of what people would say if Odd was successful with Carla in The Key, not really much at all. Of course, I've been out of high school for like 4 years now, so maybe teenage habits have changed since then, or maybe my observations are obsured being the social outcast that I am and was.

The both of them are very shy though, and they still seem to be trying to hide their affections for each other from the general school body (and with Milly and Tamiya around, I can't say I'd blame them). ^^ This might be why they don't do things like eating lunch alone together or something along those lines.

Also, there has really been only one known instance of Yumi hanging out with William during lunch or otherwise, and that was in "Uncharted Territory" where she sat down to eat lunch with him. However considering that Ulrich, Odd and Jeremie were all at the Hermitage, and Yumi was not aware that Aelita was behind her and lonely, sitting with William is not so unusual or shady a thing to do. Sitting by oneself at lunch is no fun, and Yumi is friends with William (more or less how she's friends with Odd or Jeremie but not romantically involved). So sitting with William is just about the same as her sitting with just Odd or Jeremie at lunch.

I do agree with you that they sometimes bring the interruptions on themselves though. ^^ But they're both rather shy about things like that, so hesitations are going to happen. Shyness, particularly about relationships, is not so easy a thing to conquer, particularly when one considers that Yumi and Ulrich are both "loners" by nature. Happy

Yet not shy enough to go the school dance together and dance with each other. Kinda makes me wonder why a passing show of affection that was obviously mean to tell Sissi off gets a 2 page picture and a paparazzi like chase for an interview yet a dance where they are having a good time with each other means nothing. Maybe my world view is as messed up as I think it is.

Wasn't William hanging around with Yumi between class before they had to go to Chemistry? Granted Odd was there with them, but for some reason, I thought his addition to scene seemed kinda odd, like he was just passing by, but Uncharted Territory was the only time where they hung out together without it being class time, where one didn't drag the other away.

Ahh, but what about now? Sissi has been about as friendly as William, perhaps considerably more so, in season 2. Given that Yumi was rather jealous all the same about Sissi in season 1, I think she could easily feel just as threatened by Sissi now as Ulrich does with William. But Yumi doesn't seem to let it bother her anymore, because, as I believe, she now understands that Ulrich really does have feelings for her. I believe she may just be waiting for him to get past his jealousy of William

"Maybe because being with someone nasty rubs off on you." - Ulrich about Sissi in Ultimatum

"I'd rather go study for a math quiz than go to the movies with Sissi!" - Ulrich in XANA's Kiss

The first one was after the events of St. Valentine's Day, Missing Link, and Attack of the Zombies. The second was made after Ultimatum. And just by his general attitude, though Sissi has improved herself, and the gang has been slowly warming up to her, she is still not in friends territory yet. At best, she's probably left total pain in the patoot, and entered minor annoyance. Again, I thought Yumi's jealousy of Sissi in Season 1 was fairly mild, only rearing its head unquestionably in Big Bug and Frontier. Other than that, it wasn't shown that often. Yumi doesn't have much to worry about from Sissi. Sissi still hasn't reached the point of good friend yet, she's not going to make potential love interest anytime soon. William, on the other hand, has Yumi being friendly around him, with him just as aggressive as Sissi. So from my pov, William's relative threat level is greater than Sissi.

There is "Missing Link" though, where she has absolutely no issues with sending Ulrich and Sissi off to a concert together. If that isn't tolerance and trust, I don't know what is.

I'd call it gratitude or payment, kinda like St. Valentines Day, but thats just me.

But considering William's character and the fact that I believe she's let him know several times about herself and Ulrich in some way (judging by "New Order"), he won't take a hint even if it hits him with the force of a minivan. William's getting to the point of pedantic about his relationship with Yumi. He obviously knows that Yumi has chosen Ulrich, "A Bad Turn", and whether he's discerned this on his own, or Yumi actually told him, the fault still lies with him for not accepting the fact. It's precisely the same problem Sissi still has in that she keeps pursuing after Ulrich, fully aware that he's not romantically interested in her. The same is true with William. It's not Yumi's fault that no matter how clear she makes it, he can't give it up.

Plus...I don't think anyone should be obligated to share every single change in their lovelife, even if it's with their friends. Sometimes, things need to be kept only to those who physically need to know. Kadic is not the most private of places, and on Lyoko there's too much happening to try and tell anyone anything really.

Well in "A Bad Turn", he did probe Yumi for an answer, "It's Ulrich, isn't it?", to which Yumi didn't answer. He knows in the race, Ulrich is winning. He knows Ulrich is directly what stands in his way, as he stated in Marabounta. But he hasn't recieved a clear answer from Yumi, so he could easily just feel that he's only behind, not out. The fact that he probed her for a direct answer means he could of wanted to know that she was already taken, that he had already lost instead of losing.

Though I would agree the gang doesn't need to know, its just a matter between her, William, and possibly Ulrich. Just wish she would tell William already.

But again, I believe "St. Valentines' Day" was the last time Yumi let her jealousy get in the way of their relationship. She doesn't bat an eyelash at Ulrich and Sissi doing things together or remotely being friends any time after that, and I highly doubt she would have acted the same way in season 1. She's matured and gained a better understanding of things.

Again, her jealousy was mild to begin with in Season 1. And she does bat an eyelash every once and a while *cough*Ultimatum*cough*.

Alright, although the fact that it is a "dance" that they both went to doesn't change no matter how informal or formal it is which ties into what I said earlier about going together to a dance and how it's generally going to be perceived. The fact that Yumi didn't dress up for the one in "Final Mix" might also be a thing the animators just chose not to do. "TeddyGozilla" was the first episode and they experimented with alot of things that didn't always reoccur in later episodes (alternate outfits being one of them).

Going back to my first 2 paragraphs this post, going to a dance does not necessarily mean "dating" or being percieved as an item, even less at an informal dance. Afterall, minor hugging in front of the cafeteria got a picture and article in the paper. Dancing in an informal dance got them nothing. Again, I think its informal because the dance's location wasn't decided until the day before. A prom dance usually is decided weeks or even months in advance. Also, this dance they didn't dress up, unlike the dance in The Key, which means that the animators would atleast have them dress up for an important one (other than Odd, who has to be the odd man out).

At any rate, I can still see a serious amount of change in Yumi's tolerance of Sissi from "St. Valentine's Day" on. And there's a subtle but definite amount of change in the nature of Yumi and Ulrich's relationship too. I would still almost put forth that one of the reason's Yumi and Ulrich's relationship seems static in season 2, is that the viewers really don't see as much of them interacting as opposed to season 1 and in comparison to Jeremie and Aelita (who have always seemed to dominate in terms of "togetherness" time whether Aelita be in Lyoko or out). It's a definite possibility....

I would put forth that their relationship is in the same state it has been in Season 1, thus why its so static. Adding William just hindered any progress they made in moving forward. They are still in the ackwerd stage of "does he/she love me?", not wanting to appear in love either to the public or the gang or themselves (despite the obviousness of their interest in the eyes of almost everyone). Its all around the bush, constant hesitation, and no one stepping forward. More them not being emotionally honest with themselves, the only difference is now Ulrich gets to experience partially what Yumi only mildly experienced in Season 1. A slight increase in tolerance towards Sissi is not what I would consider a moving forward in their relationship. For one, the entire gang has been warming up to Sissi (some more than others). And her personality has been steadily improving, so a tolerance of her could easily be an extension of Sissi's improvement, not a changing relationship. And another, again, she wasn't that jealous of her in the first place. Big Bug and Frontier are the only times I remember her being jealous. Going from two jealous rants to one jealous rant seems hardly that big a deal (and really Big Bug kept quiet between her and Jeremie).

Really, a good jump forward would to drop off William or Sissi moving on, by way of Yumi or Ulrich's actions. Having only Yumi and Ulrich only amongst themselves without their competition would atleast allow them gather their feeling of each other without interruption or something to throw a monkey wrench into the works. Atleast have them know that they have only themselves and no other, even if they aren't sure yet. But its probably still going to still be the same ackwerdness for almost the entirety Season 3.

[Rail Runner offline]

I dislike the fact that Ulrich and Yumi never spend any quiet time together, to just talk and admit their feelings for each other....maybe its the fact that Yumi is a day student and Ulrich is a boarder....but at least they could go somewhere quiet during the day, like on lunch break or something, and just talk.

[LadyLucy offline]

*lucy, we are cool...but please dont use that sl word, just in case younger kids might be reading the forum*

Sissy is stuck up, that I can definitely agree on. She runs to her dad for every little thing..I would never trust her as far as I could throw her. I wonder if she will calm down in Season 3, just as she sorta has in Season 2.

Sorry... I forgot...
Yeah, really, I hope she shappens up...then her and Odd could go out!!

[Chiquita offline]

I read a story on the official Forum, it it changed my way of viewing Sissy and my signature exactly explained that story it was so weird.

[Pentomo offline]

I thimk I know you from there...but anyways: I am in the middle with Sissi. Alpha-13's, wasn't it?

[Rail Runner offline]

Today's episode of Code Lyoko Big Bug, definitely strengthened the fact of what I said earlier, she ran to her father just because of the dog...also because she felt hurt by the prank..but still...that just turns me off from Sissi that much more.

[Strangely_Scott offline]

i dislike not a character but quorkey sayings.

[Rail Runner offline]

quirky...and yeah, some of the things they say are pretty lame...odd can really come up with some funny stuff..but it tends to be hit or miss depending on the situation.

[enemyxwithin offline]

I extremely dislike William!!! He doesn't have to be so mean to Ulrich!! And he knows that Yumi likes Ulrich better than him, so why does he even bother with Yumi?!!! I think that he goes better with Sissy!!!

[Skorpigeist offline]

I extremely dislike William!!! He doesn't have to be so mean to Ulrich!! And he knows that Yumi likes Ulrich better than him, so why does he even bother with Yumi?!!! I think that he goes better with Sissy!!!

He bothers for the same reason that many people concern themselves trying to get people who don't like them to like them. He does have a genuine interest, but psychologically it may also be a good challenge for him.

[enemyxwithin offline]

I extremely dislike William!!! He doesn't have to be so mean to Ulrich!! And he knows that Yumi likes Ulrich better than him, so why does he even bother with Yumi?!!! I think that he goes better with Sissy!!!

He bothers for the same reason that many people concern themselves trying to get people who don't like them to like them. He does have a genuine interest, but psychologically it may also be a good challenge for him.

Yeah, I know. I just don't like him with Yumi though

[Rail Runner offline]

Personally, I think William is trying to play tough guy, when in all honesty, he really isnt... I guess he is trying to be like those people who appear tough to other people, but when alone, have their own feelings as well.