Let's talk tech (Now with Glossary)!

[comex offline]

Took more than an hour, but here is the scanner article on the wiki...
http://www.xemoc.net/clwiki/index.php/LTT:The_Scanners


(list of pages)

[TB3]

Comex, these Wiki pages have made my day - I am truly in your debt.

[TaskForceLyoko offline]

Excellent write-up.

And if Franz, during construction, had not thought of making the console the network hub, and just an interface and monitor like on a conventional computer, then XANA would have dominated humanity years ago.

Can't help it whenever I hear this.

[comex offline]

(Hg08Tl0.2Ba2Ca2Cu3O8.33)

What are the .s for? It isn't possible to have part of atom in a chemical formula :/

Zero-Point-Space, It’s Discovery and Applications, Franz Hopper, 1973

What the heck... did you just make that up?

As is obvious, I've wikified the first three entries, which are considerably less pretty (and pretty much a matter of copy and pasting the whole thing). Those were the ones put on the Let's Talk Tech theory page.

And I don't think that A Great Day totally bears out the console-as-hub theory. After all, it would be easy for Jeremie to just get a continual status report on the RTTP system...

but whatever.

[TB3]

The chemical forumula I copied direct from Wikipedia and yeah I made the paper up (but it sounds cool!).

And I'm not forcing you to believe me on the Console issue, it just seems far more likely,

Cheers comex and thanks again!

[comex offline]

The chemical forumula I copied direct from Wikipedia

And it's in plaintext on Wikipedia? What page? (just wondering)

[Chad Rains offline]

one little question I have: If the console was in fact used as a hub for everything, how was it able to pass all the power through to the scanners required for virtualization/materialization? I would have high douts that the console would be able to contain all that (although the oversized armature could probably do the job).

I dont know. just a tiny concern of mine. Carry on.

[comex offline]

It doesn't need to. The scanners have CPUs inside them, which act as slaves, but can perform their own power management.

[Chad Rains offline]

Ah. I see. Guess I didnt pay close enough attention. The diagram clearly indicates a direct power conduit from the super computer in the lower levels to the scanner's.

Carry On.

[animenologist offline]

Well, for root-kit, technically thats not the complete definition, although root-kits have been used to leave covert connections into a system for hackers. A root-kit is like a virus, in that it alters computer systems and coding, depending on the task it was given by the creator. The difference between a virus and a root-kit is that a virus propogates by spreading into other systems. With a root-kit, the program sticks to one system. The reason it sticks to one system is as a way of hiding it. With a virus, as soon as it propogates and spreads to other systems, they're easily identifible and much easier to remove that way. With a root-kit, they stick to one system, so it require methods of identification, usually by detecting anomolies.

The reason why we believed it to be a root-kit and not a virus, is because in A Great Day, despite having control to link a tower to the STM machine, it didn't block anything else, stuff like virtualization/de-virtualization protocols, the materialization program, their avatar packs, the vehicles (though that was disabled by too much memory usage), and loads of other things that XANA would of benefitted greatly from by disabling it. So obviously it stuck with one spot, which is why I said root-kit.

Also you could probably point out that the moveable track is on the ground. And I'm not sure if this belongs in this particular section or not, but maybe you can include the Carthage control console where the console is locked down, while information is sent directly to the console for downloading. I theorized that it was one of those cases in which to stop make sure there is no major tampering with the core systems by people at the console, atleast not with some great effort.

Also, the console does have some outside communication connections, probably through the satellites on top. It has allowed the operator the abillity to access satellite television as well as use it to make cell-phone calles. With it, the console is also capable of hacking outside networks, like the electrical networks where he monitored the voltage in Seeing is Believing, re-route the current in Zero Gravity Zone, gained access to confidential files relating to a military weapon, as well as track the course of the trains in Big Bug.

[comex offline]

If XANA built this root-kit/virus, it would make more sense for him to program it to disable everything. Call it whatever, but if in fact it did a reverse tunnel like the article says, then XANA had control and could do anything...

...unless e only had some limited/sandboxed access. Even if XANA only had control of whatever Jeremie was doing, e could blank out the screen and such to try to disable him.

[TB3]

Remember though, control of the console was not XANA's objective - boosting his IQ was the objective.

And animenologist, good thoughts on the com-systems, though have we ever seen satilite interfaces on the factory roof? I really need to know cos I'm now wrangling over the connections between the factory complex and the outside world.

[DL offline]

Well when XANA attacks a system it is usually connected to the interent in someway. When he attacks a person (specters) they travel through the powerlines. So it would be safe to assume that there is a connection to a powerline somewhere in the factory and also an internet connection.

[YDV offline]

I can't honestly think of ever really noticing them... but I'm also not necessarily denying that they're there, because it would make a lot of sense. Perhaps they're hidden away, or something (because somebody might notice if an abandoned factory complex had satellites rotating back and forth on the roof ^^; )

[TB3]

My point is though - would those kind of satilite communications networks/hardware exist in 1994?

[YDV offline]

I'm pretty sure they would-- after all, the Supercomputer uses Cell Processors, does it not?

[animenologist offline]

I looked through several episodes as well as the cross-section diagram, but nothing to conclusively state that there is a satellite interface on the roof. The only thing I could think of is that in order to release himself in the manner shown in The Key, XANA would need some form of large electrical outlet on the roof.

As for the root-kit/virus distinction and use, the intent of the creator determines the actions of the program. If he had used something like a virus, the effects are much more easily identifible, since it would have spread throughout the system. XANA's intent was to take control of the STM and continually send himself back in time to increase his processing power. He just needed a way to connect to that, activate it and do it again, not anything else. Had he done something like infect the entire console, you run into something similar to The Trap or Routine, a quick identification of the problem followed by a fairly quick removal of the problem.

[YDV offline]

Another thing... I know this may not necessarily be what we're talking baout right now, but where exactly did XANA go? I mean, all I saw was a gigantic apocalyptic swirling vortex (and then the kids FORGOT about it..) but did he spread into "the networks," hide away in another computer, or what?

I know he released himself so he couldn't be terminated by the kids turning off the computer, but he definitely won't have as much processing power as he did with the Supercomputer.. I suppose he wouldn't really need to activate Towers anymore, but then, how will he infect things without the use of specters and routers?

[TB3]

Hmm...thinking this through now I don't think the factory has it's own cell-transmitter/reciever or satellite - otherwise XANA could have used these in 'Satelite' and 'Cold War' - instead he hacked external networks.

Therefore one possibility is that the supercomputer was wired by Franz into as many phone-lines as he could, and thus acesses the internet etc through these (the bandwidth must be terrible though and why isn't the phone company tracking down this phantom user).

However - Jeremie and XANA could hack as many networks as they like using an SAP - imagine again the modems I suggested - what if these were designed to not physically connect with external systems, but to generate spectres and join onto networks that way?

How does this sound?

As for 'The Key', I think XANA turned all the modems on and generated a super-spectre containing his code, which then streamed up a smokestack and into an SAP - where he emerged is a mystery, but my hunch is he had a planned destination.

As for attacks - I reckon Moonscoop won't change the 'active-tower' = attack formula, so perhps XANA still needs to use the supercomputer to attack - this is where all the hardware and software he needs is located after all.

[YDV offline]

Ah. Even though I don't really want to let go of the fact that the factory MIGHT have an Internet connection... sure they didn't have broadband and whatnot in the 90's, but probably something..... I guess your idea works though.

[TB3]

What I'm hoping we'll workout is the answer that seems most logical.

[animenologist offline]

I'm leaning towards hacking multiple networks before his disappearance than using SAPs from spectres to hack networks. Remember, spectres require a tower activation, something Jeremie has been unable to do before Tip-Top Shape. But Jeremie has been able to hack systems and communicate outside since Seeing is Believing.

With some proper precautions, Hopper and anyone well-versed in the supercomputer could hack anything with leaving any major trace. If Jeremie is able to hack city records to leave Aelita a complete false background as to not leave suspicion, I could think he can keep the phone company off their backs. Otherwise, if it can't outmaneuver a private enterprise, what chance would the supercomputer have against a military organization, who actually train hackers to hack into their systems to further learn their defenses?

[TB3]

The point I make though is that hacking networks via 1994 phone-lines just doesn't seem to fly. Also I've reworked my 'Modems' idea a bit to try and explain what I'm getting at;

MODEMS
The factory has many of these, laid out under the floor in a fan shape around the supercomputer - as well as being junction boxes for all the wiring within the complex they function as the complex's main 'tap' on ZPS:

Each modem contains a permenent SAP, designed to monitor ZPS, initially for research, gradually for more and more agressive purposes.

By sensing electromagnetic disturbances in ZPS, the modem sensors can build a virtual model of reality - much like sonar and radar. It is through these modems as well that subjects are 'tagged' and tracked - by sensing the tiny ZPS distortions caused by neural patterns the computer can keep an eye on a number of targets, and also take 'snapshots' of those neural patterns for an RTTP. The modems can also relay data to these minds as part of the RTTP program.

(PS: This also explains why there's sometimes a flashing diagram of the nuclear plant on Jeremie's console, the massive voltages create ZPS distortions in that area which the computer routes all SAPs around in case they will be affected)

The modems also serve as the point for passive access to and from Lyoko - the communications program is designed to monitor for electromagnetic transmissions in the region and then trace the source for SAP hacking - thus the computer has internet, satalite TV, modile phone, terrestrial and cable TV, land-line phone and radio capacity.

By hacking the networks in this manner the pirate signal can't be traced - from the position of those monitoring the network transmissions and signals just 'vanish' in a Bermuda Triangle effect.

The modems can also be abused to create spectres - for this XANA had to devise his own program to piggy-back onto the preexisting ones. Because his program is not a pre-existant one however, it can't derive it's power from the PD - instead it has to leech it from external networks. It also has to be run from a tower rather than as an internal function.

Does this make sense? Please strip it to pieces!

[YDV offline]

Beautiful! I actually like that better. So basically you're saying that everything that goes on in reality has small effects on ZPS, and these disturbances can be monitered via permanent SAPs? That makes a lot of sense (though I think you probably should revise your article on ZPS to include that), since it covers pretty much everything concerning how the computer is in touch with the outside world (and the people in it, in the case of an RTTP)

So, for XANA to create a specter, it has to go like this:

______INTERNAL________________________EXTERNAL

Carthage_______Lyoko____________Supercomputer__________ZPS >>>>
__________________________________________________________^______V
XANA___________Tower_>>>>>>>>>Modems>>>>>>>>>>>>>>^______V
_v_______________^______________________v________________________V
_v>>>>>>>>>>>^_______________________v__________________Real World
________________________________________v________________________V
________________________________________v________________________V
________________________________________v____________________Networks
_______________<<< LIGHTSPEED CHARGING <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<V
_______________v__________________________________________________
____________Specter

? Or is it different? I put the arrows from the modems to lightspeed charging because isn't it possible to charge an SAP through the Exertanium-shielded wires within the complex?

Err.. wait. Nevermind. Since the modems would need to keep permanent SAPs open in order to monitor ZPS, it wouldn't be necessary to go through the networks first... but perhaps, like you said, since the XANA's Specters aren't original internal processes, it would be necessary to reroute them through the outside world. I think.

[TB3]

Yup, you interpreted it perfectly and I'm glad you like it - also the diagram really is something.

And as you say, spectre-signals have to be routed through external networks in order to gather the energy necessary to convert to a spectre.

And yeah - I've gonna redraft some of the earlier stuff but I'll only do it if the group agrees on these ideas - this all popped out of my skull on those walks I've been taking recently - really good for stimulating the brain.

A quick question on the modems - the circular panel around the supercomputer is divided into 16 sections with wires radiating in - could this have a bearing on how many modems there are?

i.e: five modems per section - 16x5 = 80 therefore two modems per tower.

Or something to the like, but 80 modems processing internal data and SAP-hacked data would make sense for the number-crunching-capacity of the supercomputer.

Thoughts?