What happened to 2D Animation?

[G-Force offline]

Over the Hedge
The Wild
Happy Feet
The Barnyard
Open Season
Everybody's Hero
Flushed Away

All of these movieswere release in theathers recently and all of they have something in common, all of them use computer generated graphics (not to mention most of them were about animals leaving the safety of home and doing funny things but that's another story).

Now call me old fashioned if you want, I'd like to say on the record that I still wish that there were some animated movies released that were not drawn in the three-dimentional plane. Don't get me wrong, a good animation movie is a good movie reguardless if it's 2D or 3D. Many of the scenes in "Over the Hedge" that I saw were quiet witty and well written so my hats off to that.

It's just that well....it sort of feels as if all the companies out there are making the switch to 3D as they think good graphics and celebrity voices constitute a good movie; putting a slight emphasis of style over substance.

What do you guys think about this recent trend?

[LadyLucy offline]

Well...I miss the old classic cartoons... Lion King, Mulan, etc. I grew up with them. ^_^

I do find the 3D interesting, though. Espically if I get DVD's with the special doc.s that show how they made the movie. That is cool. ^^

So..I think it's a tie...

[Tom Bone offline]

I miss the 2D movies too. They're, like Lucy said, classics. But a goos sign of 3D animation is that echnology was advancing. Hopefully, someone will make a 2D movie again soon.

[Stonecreek]

I want my classic cel animation back! I miss the good Disney movies, and while computer generated movies were novel in 1995, the market is over-saturated. All the care, the feeling, has gone out of the animated movie industry. The stories are rehashed, the effects subpar, and the execs run everything based on assumed profit. They don't relaize one old-fashioned 2-D movie at this point in time would be a huge box office hit, simply because it hasn't been done well in a long time.

[LadyChaos offline]

I'd like to point out that computer animation was used in Lion King. Mostly during the stampede scene in the canyon.


Anyway, as a long-time fan of Looney Tunes, Tom & Jerry, and select Disney movies; I can say that I too am sad to see that 2D is going away...

I don't know if it's for better or worse that way, it's just a sign of progress.

Wonder what the ratio for time and money spent on 2D vs. 3D is... If 3D isn't as expensive as 2D, I can understand why more 3D movies are being made. And there's also all the people who study computer animation vs. how many people can do 2D animation. If there's more people available to work on 3D than 2D, then it'll take less time to make a 3D movie...maybe. I don't know how the animation process works, just that it takes a long freakin' time to make an animated movie, whether it's hand-drawn or computer animated.

[Carth]

You're right. The only large-release 2D movie I've seen in a while is the Spongebob Squarepants movie, and...yeah.

Even Disney's big releases are going to be going 3D, as seen from 'Meet The Robinsons' (which looks AWESOME, by the way). Why? It's essentially more 'lifelike', and the theater people think that's what attracts people.

I say, if you want lifelike, go with live action.

Once I break into the cartoon business, as I plan to do someday, one of my projects will be to get at least one good 2D movie into theaters.

That ISN'T a big-release attempt for a television cartoon. (See Spongebob- and The Simpsons movie that's coming out soon, also 2D but...as said, yeah.)

[Stargate offline]

I definitely miss the old 2D movies. There's just something there that 3D animation doesn't have for me; I always feel like something's lacking when I'm watching a 3D film, and then I go watch 2D and love it.

Sooner or later 2D will be the rage again like it was when I was young (and I'm only... what.... fifteen?). Until then....

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

You know, those things are done completely by hand. And so they can take a whie. or one 22 minute episode to be on, it takes a team of about 300 people nine months to go from start to finish.

And to be honest, all those classic movies were in fact one with computers. Ever wonder why, after nine months of a;ll that drawing an filling in, why not one line ever falters, and the coloring is perfect? Well that's coz it's actually formatted into a computer cell, filled in, and animated. Like a really long animated gif.

And also, with #D animations, you don't have to make every frame over and over again, just create the mdel, the scene, and make an action to follow. As the charachters interract, yoiu save it, and then someone links it together. Then to do merchanising it;s easy because it's allready set for th modelling, they just do som new voicing, a little reanimation, change the scene, and here! it's done. So there you've cut out all the extra people, psace, and you don't have to worry about a cell being blotted or anything, coz it's just the compuer doing it.

[Skysong offline]

I like both styles of animation. 2D... there's something about 2D that 3D just can't match. 2D came first. 3D will always be the hotshot kid brother. They talk about "squash and stretch" programs for 3D movies a lot, which is, guess what, a 2D animation concept! But I've seen quite a few of the 3D movies that came out this year... I saw Happy Feet, and I was BLOWN AWAY. The graphics are SO much better than anything else I've seen, not to mention it was just a plain good movie.

Basically, what I want is all things in moderation. 3D is cool, but come on! It's just getting ridiculous. I was watching Alice in Wonderland, and the lovely, nonstylized animation depressed me because Disney has given up on that except for cheapquels because it doesn't sell.

[G-Force offline]

You know, those things are done completely by hand. And so they can take a whie. or one 22 minute episode to be on, it takes a team of about 300 people nine months to go from start to finish.

And to be honest, all those classic movies were in fact one with computers. Ever wonder why, after nine months of a;ll that drawing an filling in, why not one line ever falters, and the coloring is perfect? Well that's coz it's actually formatted into a computer cell, filled in, and animated. Like a really long animated gif.

And also, with #D animations, you don't have to make every frame over and over again, just create the mdel, the scene, and make an action to follow. As the charachters interract, yoiu save it, and then someone links it together. Then to do merchanising it;s easy because it's allready set for th modelling, they just do som new voicing, a little reanimation, change the scene, and here! it's done. So there you've cut out all the extra people, psace, and you don't have to worry about a cell being blotted or anything, coz it's just the compuer doing it.

Well it's not really the use of computers that I'm addressing, a person's hands can only take so much before technology steps in and makes things easier. People can still make 2D movies using computers and it has been done before, please folks if anyone can think of a title on the top of their heads where the previous statetment agrees with please say so cause I'm out of idea.

It's just that every major animation movie released so far have been big-budget CGI rendered movies that are all 3D where I feel like I'm getting the impession that the movie was rendered in 3D just for the sake of being in 3D.

Now if we want to talk about a dying art how about stop-motion animation.

[Mewberries151]

Heh...well, as someone who's been trying to learn the craft of and get into the animation business (particularly the 2D spectrum), these are my views on it.

As far as Disney was concerned, 3D movies were where the money was at. Pixar's films had done amazingly well, as had DreamWorks CGI films. So Eisner and the Disney Company, mistakenly assumed that CGI animated films were the only films that were going to make money anymore and that 2D animation was out.

They then fired most of their 2D animators and sold off nearly all of their animation tables (special tables with lightboxes inside that animators work from). Pixar, incidentally, bought all of these supplies, as they understood the true value of what makes a "good" animated film. And that's a good story.

It won't matter how mind-blowing the effects and CGI are...if the story isn't there, than the animation doesn't have a true heart and soul...it's just a really fancy fireworks display.

In any case, now that John Lasseter is in charge of a lot of the animation production at Disney (thanks to the recent merger of Pixar and Disney, and Eisner's firing not too long ago), 2D animation may be able to bounce back. Lasseter recently submitted a demo short film to Disney execs that was animated in the 2D tradition (entitled "The Frog Princess", I believe). Supposedly (if it hasn't already) if this demo does well with the execs it'll be made into the next 2D animated film for Disney.

So, you see, 2D animation may just come back. I can tell you that among independent animators (particularly French animators and Japanese animators) it is still a very popular medium and is in use in these countries (the unfortunate part is though that many of these films do not make it here).

I'm of the belief that there need be no competition between 3D and 2D animation and that the two can and should be used in harmony and to complement each other. Miyazaki, one of my most favorite animators, is of this similar opinion, as are quite a few of the animators I've gotten to meet.

In any case though, to fully answer G-Force's main question, CGI has been the "trend" in animation...and though its not on it's way out...I believe 2D animation is on its way back in.

[Sithking Zero offline]

As long as the movie is good, I don't really care. I mean, look at FFVII Advent Children. That was a freaking awesome movie! But still, my favorite movie is Princess Mononoke, a 2-D movie. You know?

[Skysong offline]

Mew, you've actually *met* Miyazaki? I may shrivel up from envy on the spot!

John Lasseter remains my hopes for the future of Disney... he's wonderful.

...I also can't help but hope the Frog Princess is based on the book of the same title...

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Now if we want to talk about a dying art how about stop-motion animation.

Well, Flushed Away was ctually planned to be in stop animation, however the studio burned own right in the midle of production, so They set up a contract with Dreamworks, who helped render the film.

And it all comes in waves, mind you.

[Mewberries151]

Mew, you've actually *met* Miyazaki? I may shrivel up from envy on the spot!

Oh, goodness, no. I wish I had though. *snickers* Admittedly I phrased that badly. How it should have read was that the animators I have had the pleasure to meet and work with (mostly fellow fledgling animators) have a similar opinion to mine, and that I had also read in an interview with Miyazaki that he also feels more or less the same way.

*sweatdrops* I haven't met Miyazaki...although I absolutely would love to! ^.^

John Lasseter remains my hopes for the future of Disney... he's wonderful.

...I also can't help but hope the Frog Princess is based on the book of the same title...

Heh...here here! I totally agree.

[Carth]

Pixar is where smart humans go to work.

And John Lasseter is one smart human.

[Tom Bone offline]

I'd like to point out that computer animation was used in Lion King. Mostly during the stampede scene in the canyon.

(Comic Book Guy Voice) Best...Disney Scene...Ever