Homosexuality

[knifey offline]

Discuss why should it be legal or why do you believe it should be illegal.

This can also just be a thread for LGBT alone, not just marriage.

[Carth]

Ahahaha. I'll just say this right off the bat- do not use this thread to go EWWW about LGBT or bash it and stuff. Kthxbai.

I really don't know what my view is on the marriage side of it. However, for LGBTs in general, I personally don't mind them, though I'm straight myself. Love should not be tempered with.

Though, I hate the idea of stereotypes for them- that anyone that dares to express themselves beyond societial norm is automatically 'gay'. Pfft.

Yep, that's me, Miss Coexist.

[Gauntlet offline]

I'm unsure about one angle of marriage. I entirely agree that gay couples should receive the benefits as a heterosexual married couple, and think it's disgusting that they're denied that. It must be a terrible sinking feeling when the reality of it hits home in dire circumstances.

I'm not so sure if they should actually participate in the Catholic version of marriage, though. That was strictly reserved for straight couples, if I recall correctly; it doesn't seem like a good idea for gay couples to push for the straight version of marriage. Chances are people will get upset that...gays are "defiling" the Christian/Catholic way, or something stupid.

Yes for legal benefits, unsure about Catholic marriage (the other things, like civil marriage, are fine).

[Tangent128 offline]

I feel that, as marriage is a religious institution ("holy" matrimony?), government shouldn't have anything to do with it in the first place.

Personally, while I feel that homosexuality is a sin, it's not worse than any other sin.

[. offline]

I feel that, as marriage is a religious institution ("holy" matrimony?), government shouldn't have anything to do with it in the first place.

Personally, while I feel that homosexuality is a sin, it's not worse than any other sin.

Thing is, and here is the real controversy with it, is that when you get marriage you get other benefits such as tax breaks and shared insurance plans. And bottom line is opposers cry out that it's for the sanctity of marriage but it's really all about the benjamins.

They fear a world where a Guy would marry his best-friend and they weren't gay just for the sake of helping him out with his medical bills.

[timekitten offline]

I feel that, as marriage is a religious institution ("holy" matrimony?), government shouldn't have anything to do with it in the first place.

Personally, while I feel that homosexuality is a sin, it's not worse than any other sin.

Thing is, and here is the real controversy with it, is that when you get marriage you get other benefits such as tax breaks and shared insurance plans. And bottom line is opposers cry out that it's for the sanctity of marriage but it's really all about the benjamins.

They fear a world where a Guy would marry his best-friend and they weren't gay just for the sake of helping him out with his medical bills.

You mean like the movie 'I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry'? Anyway, what's the problem with people being able to pay med bills, or any others. Are they trying to keep people in debt? *looks at countless credit cards and loan offers* Okay, stupid question.

As far as I'm concerned, it's their life. Not mine. If they want to marry with the same gender, let them. It doesn't affect me or anyone else. It's nobody's business but their own.

[YDV offline]

I'm unsure about one angle of marriage. I entirely agree that gay couples should receive the benefits as a heterosexual married couple, and think it's disgusting that they're denied that. It must be a terrible sinking feeling when the reality of it hits home in dire circumstances.

I'm not so sure if they should actually participate in the Catholic version of marriage, though. That was strictly reserved for straight couples, if I recall correctly; it doesn't seem like a good idea for gay couples to push for the straight version of marriage. Chances are people will get upset that...gays are "defiling" the Christian/Catholic way, or something stupid.

Yes for legal benefits, unsure about Catholic marriage (the other things, like civil marriage, are fine).

<s>Screw Catholicism</s> So you're saying that there should be a "special" kind of marriage? All that means is people are going to look for ways to make it unequal. This situation is almost exactly like segregation, with all that "separate but equal" crap. I'm not saying that the Catholic church should immediately condone gay marriage (cuz, let's not kid ourselves people, it's never going to happen) but I think that marriage should just be a union between two people and you sign a freaking marriage license. Religious affiliation is up to you.

This tells me that people are afraid of equality, it threatens them that GLBT individuals might be treated on the same level as anyone else. Now, most people opposed would deny this on the spot, but I suspect that it is a deep-rooted subconscious feeling. Not too far removed from racism. "I don't like foreigners or black people because they'll take my job. I don't like the thought of them being on the same level as me."

I feel that, as marriage is a religious institution ("holy" matrimony?), government shouldn't have anything to do with it in the first place.

Personally, while I feel that homosexuality is a sin, it's not worse than any other sin.

.....According to whom, precisely?

Okay, first of all, marriage as defined legally is like a contract between two people, saying that they share a household and economic rights, etc. The only reason people associate it with religion is because of tradition. Not everyone has the same traditions, so tradition cannot be treated as fact and law. Therefore, marriage is not a "religious institution," it is a legal and civil institution that is assocated with it. It is the government's job to protect the rights of all of its people, not just some of them. There is a reason why the idea of separation of church and state exists.

Thing is, and here is the real controversy with it, is that when you get marriage you get other benefits such as tax breaks and shared insurance plans. And bottom line is opposers cry out that it's for the sanctity of marriage but it's really all about the benjamins.

They fear a world where a Guy would marry his best-friend and they weren't gay just for the sake of helping him out with his medical bills.

What stops you from saying that that's the reason straight people get married? Many times it is; heterosexuals get married just for the economic benefits. No one can really say the reason why two individuals decide to get married except for them, and most of the time, no matter who their partner is, it's out of love. That's a human emotion, you know, natural to all souls on the Earth.

[. offline]

YDV if it was all human emotion there wouldn't be the hub-bub. I'm saying that is why people get married, for the money.

[YDV offline]

...No it's not. xD; Survey all the people about to get married and most people won't say it's for the money. Everyone's not that bad.

[Gauntlet offline]

I'm unsure about one angle of marriage. I entirely agree that gay couples should receive the benefits as a heterosexual married couple, and think it's disgusting that they're denied that. It must be a terrible sinking feeling when the reality of it hits home in dire circumstances.

I'm not so sure if they should actually participate in the Catholic version of marriage, though. That was strictly reserved for straight couples, if I recall correctly; it doesn't seem like a good idea for gay couples to push for the straight version of marriage. Chances are people will get upset that...gays are "defiling" the Christian/Catholic way, or something stupid.

Yes for legal benefits, unsure about Catholic marriage (the other things, like civil marriage, are fine).

<s>Screw Catholicism</s> So you're saying that there should be a "special" kind of marriage? All that means is people are going to look for ways to make it unequal. This situation is almost exactly like segregation, with all that "separate but equal" crap. I'm not saying that the Catholic church should immediately condone gay marriage (cuz, let's not kid ourselves people, it's never going to happen) but I think that marriage should just be a union between two people and you sign a freaking marriage license. Religious affiliation is up to you.

This tells me that people are afraid of equality, it threatens them that GLBT individuals might be treated on the same level as anyone else. Now, most people opposed would deny this on the spot, but I suspect that it is a deep-rooted subconscious feeling. Not too far removed from racism. "I don't like foreigners or black people because they'll take my job. I don't like the thought of them being on the same level as me."

If you can point out to be where it says marriage (through Catholicism/Christianity) was intended for gays, I'll take back what I said. To be honest, I haven't actually read into marriage that well, and for that matter, the Bible, but what I can recall, (and would likely guess), marriage is solely intended for straight couples.

What you just said, about a union between two people and signing a marriage license, is civil marriage. No, I don't think gays should participate in the Catholicism version of marriage--which was intended for straight couples. Seems like a direct offense to the Bible, and all of the followers on that token, doesn't it? You can throw a wonderful wedding with flowers and whatever you want, but without a priest or any other kind of religious authority.

That's all I'm saying. Hopefully most gays would respect the Bible's words and not go through with a Catholic marriage, because if they don't, they're most likely guaranteed lots of hell for it. That "subconscious" thing is moot; if the Bible said marriage was intended for two men, or two women, then there wouldn't be anything to debate out. Since the Bible specifically states that it was intended for a man and a woman, doesn't it seem a bit disrespectful to blatantly ignore that and marry under their rules anyways?

By all means, though, if you quote where the Bible says marriage was also intended for gays, you'll get a guaranteed change of mindset from me.

(The only reason I used the Bible and Catholicism is because that seems to be the most popular kind of marriage. I'm not too sure what's going on with other religions, but I can guess they're debating over the same thing.)

[. offline]

...No it's not. xD; Survey all the people about to get married and most people won't say it's for the money. Everyone's not that bad.

Well that maybe one thing, but your blind if you don't see theres also money involved.

[YDV offline]

I didn't say it's not involved. I'm just saying it's not involved all of the time.

Illusion, you have a very rigid line of thinking. Things are not the way they once were. We all have to live together in this world, and people have to learn how to accept each other, whether they like it or not.

It's up to people themselves to choose how they'll be married. NO ONE, and I do mean no one, should tell them how to do it, or worse, that they cannot. How would YOU like it if someone told you that you can't do something because their religion forbids it? Not very cool, huh?

The Bible is not law in this country. We are not a theocracy. It is not absolute and does not define everything, and should not be treated as such.

Other religions, for your information, are NOT concerned about this. In Islam, it is forbidden. In Islam, PLENTY of things are forbidden. So for the others, if it is an issue at all, it is because of customs. People are afraid of change. For a long time, it was forbidden for white people to marry black people. This is the exact same thing.

I kind of see what you're saying. That if the Bible says gay marriage is a nono, they shouldnt be able to be married under the Bible. But as I said, the Bible isn't law in America, and it can't tell people they can't get married period. Maybe in Catholicism they can't, but not in general.

I personally believe that if two guys or two girls really really wanted to have a Christian wedding, they SHOULD be able to. I'm not saying they will be. Because of the rigidity of the religion, in all likelihood it'll never be possible. I don't see why they'd want to, though, since it is such a source of intolerence and discrimination.

[Gauntlet offline]

I'm not saying gays shouldn't get married. I wish they did, actually, under civil marriage (government, or at least a religious body other than the Catholic churches that deny such gay couples) so that we wouldn't have all these issues. The Bible is not the law in this country, you are right--I'm not forbidding anything, but only stating that I don't agree with marriage through Catholicism.

If I'm going to stand out on the corner of the street with a picket sign, or make it my job to deny any gays a Catholic marriage, then you can say I have a rigid mindset. I don't have a problem if a gay couple gets married in the church next door; I'd be kind of glad, because at least now they'd receive some kind of legal benefits and some happiness. I simply don't agree with the idea--that doesn't mean I hate gays, or have some subconscious feelings of discrimination against them.

[Malkmusian offline]

I have to agree. Why is God against the homos?

[Lyoko Wario offline]

I am heterosexual, but have no problem with homosexuality or same-sex marriage. The way I see it, if it feels good and hurts no one, (or, at least, no one who doesn't deserve to be hurt) do it. I think nobody should have the right to make this kind of decision for someone else, but some of the more right-wing politicians seem to have a problem understanding this. If you don't want to do it, don't. Don't be so infantile as to whine and cry when someone else does want to, I say.

[Tangent128 offline]

Again, I consider homosexuality to be wrong, but I'm not going to insist on governmental action. The government isn't supposed to protect people from themselves, but from harm by others. It's the price of freedom of religion...

There's no reason for anybody to hate homosexuals. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" sounds cliche, but is good policy. Too few public figures seem to apply it...

[IshiyamaYumi offline]

If you ask me, marrage is something that should be about how you feel about someone, not about their race or gender. Don't get me wrong, I know that same sex marrage make some people uneasy, but that is no reason that two people that are of the same sex can't have the right to get married, would it be a diffrent story if same sex marrage was the normal thing and couples of the opisit sex couldn't get married and you we're in a relationship with someone of the opisit sex? also, if you are truly in love with someone, would you care about their sex? Don't get me wrong again, I'm a Christian but I do think that some of the things that the church tries to impose and even some of these days laws are a bit out dated, I mean, we are in 2007 now, not 1905!

[Lyoko Wario offline]

I mean, we are in 2007 now, not 1905!

I'm sure you just made a careless mistake, but...

The Bible is much, much, much older than just from 1905.

[codeTONY offline]

I'm unsure about one angle of marriage. I entirely agree that gay couples should receive the benefits as a heterosexual married couple, and think it's disgusting that they're denied that. It must be a terrible sinking feeling when the reality of it hits home in dire circumstances.

I'm not so sure if they should actually participate in the Catholic version of marriage, though. That was strictly reserved for straight couples, if I recall correctly; it doesn't seem like a good idea for gay couples to push for the straight version of marriage. Chances are people will get upset that...gays are "defiling" the Christian/Catholic way, or something stupid.

Yes for legal benefits, unsure about Catholic marriage (the other things, like civil marriage, are fine).

<s>Screw Catholicism</s> So you're saying that there should be a "special" kind of marriage? All that means is people are going to look for ways to make it unequal. This situation is almost exactly like segregation, with all that "separate but equal" crap. I'm not saying that the Catholic church should immediately condone gay marriage (cuz, let's not kid ourselves people, it's never going to happen) but I think that marriage should just be a union between two people and you sign a freaking marriage license. Religious affiliation is up to you.

This tells me that people are afraid of equality, it threatens them that GLBT individuals might be treated on the same level as anyone else. Now, most people opposed would deny this on the spot, but I suspect that it is a deep-rooted subconscious feeling. Not too far removed from racism. "I don't like foreigners or black people because they'll take my job. I don't like the thought of them being on the same level as me."

I feel that, as marriage is a religious institution ("holy" matrimony?), government shouldn't have anything to do with it in the first place.

Personally, while I feel that homosexuality is a sin, it's not worse than any other sin.

.....According to whom, precisely?

Okay, first of all, marriage as defined legally is like a contract between two people, saying that they share a household and economic rights, etc. The only reason people associate it with religion is because of tradition. Not everyone has the same traditions, so tradition cannot be treated as fact and law. Therefore, marriage is not a "religious institution," it is a legal and civil institution that is assocated with it. It is the government's job to protect the rights of all of its people, not just some of them. There is a reason why the idea of separation of church and state exists.

Thing is, and here is the real controversy with it, is that when you get marriage you get other benefits such as tax breaks and shared insurance plans. And bottom line is opposers cry out that it's for the sanctity of marriage but it's really all about the benjamins.

They fear a world where a Guy would marry his best-friend and they weren't gay just for the sake of helping him out with his medical bills.

What stops you from saying that that's the reason straight people get married? Many times it is; heterosexuals get married just for the economic benefits. No one can really say the reason why two individuals decide to get married except for them, and most of the time, no matter who their partner is, it's out of love. That's a human emotion, you know, natural to all souls on the Earth.

[quote="YDV"I didn't say it's not involved. I'm just saying it's not involved all of the time.

Illusion, you have a very rigid line of thinking. Things are not the way they once were. We all have to live together in this world, and people have to learn how to accept each other, whether they like it or not.

It's up to people themselves to choose how they'll be married. NO ONE, and I do mean no one, should tell them how to do it, or worse, that they cannot. How would YOU like it if someone told you that you can't do something because their religion forbids it? Not very cool, huh?

The Bible is not law in this country. We are not a theocracy. It is not absolute and does not define everything, and should not be treated as such.

Other religions, for your information, are NOT concerned about this. In Islam, it is forbidden. In Islam, PLENTY of things are forbidden. So for the others, if it is an issue at all, it is because of customs. People are afraid of change. For a long time, it was forbidden for white people to marry black people. This is the exact same thing.

I kind of see what you're saying. That if the Bible says gay marriage is a nono, they shouldnt be able to be married under the Bible. But as I said, the Bible isn't law in America, and it can't tell people they can't get married period. Maybe in Catholicism they can't, but not in general.

I personally believe that if two guys or two girls really really wanted to have a Christian wedding, they SHOULD be able to. I'm not saying they will be. Because of the rigidity of the religion, in all likelihood it'll never be possible. I don't see why they'd want to, though, since it is such a source of intolerence and discrimination.[/quote]

<3

Um yeah. Legalize it <s>or else I'm going to have a hard time</s>. kkthxbai

[IshiyamaYumi offline]

I mean, we are in 2007 now, not 1905!

I'm sure you just made a careless mistake, but...

The Bible is much, much, much older than just from 1905.

I know, I'm making the point that then, the church was very powerful and that these thing we're not heard of, I know that the bible wasn't written then, the new testiment was written in 80AD

[ambitiouslove offline]

YDV if it was all human emotion there wouldn't be the hub-bub. I'm saying that is why people get married, for the money.

Hmm... do you have some stats/websites/etc to back that up? I hope that's just your opinion and you're not trying to state that as fact.

Not all people get married for money. Actually, there are some tax breaks that are better if you're single rather than if you were married. People get married for a lot of reasons.. good and bad reasons.

BTW yes, I'm married. When I got married I was a college student with no other job and my husband was (and still is) in the Army. We don't have a lot of money (actually I just quit my extremely stressful job) but we got married anyway... wow... because we love each other? lol

As for the topic at hand, I think homosexuals should be able to get married There's supposed to be a seperation of church and state, so I don't know why our current government keeps bringing religion and personal beliefs into it. >>

[yumi_yemimah offline]

same sex marrage I have no problem with it.I dont think it matters who you fall in love with.

[Taelia offline]

I strongly believe that marriage is the union between a MAN and a WOMAN. God created men and women a certain way. We should believe in that way and not defile the sancitity of God's word.

[JesusFreak offline]

I agree. Thank you Taelia, for saying something I lacked the courage to say.

[knifey offline]

<<I>post removed due to immaturity</I>>