Let's Chat Characters

[Taelia offline]

I agree with Animenologist. On top of that, Jeremie shouldn't have acted to rejectful and allowed Sissi to keep her memory. She was a great help to the team.

[knifey offline]

I agree with Animenologist. On top of that, Jeremie shouldn't have acted to rejectful and allowed Sissi to keep her memory. She was a great help to the team.

In "Ultimatum" I don't recall Jeremie ever saying, "Sissi can't keep her memory", nor do I recall anyone suggest her keeping it. And if I didn't read what you posted in the "Ultimatum" thread, I probably wouldn't know what you are talking about.

Anyway, how about we talk about William, and I really hope there isn't going to be any, "I hate William! He's a jerk" *statements*. Facts can often speak more than opinions.

One thing thats bothered me lately is that I saw one or two threads where someone stated something about Sissi and William not taking any hints. Did anyone think that they can come back in season 3 and be different people (Sissi being much less bratty and William not going for Yumi as much as he was in season 2)? Last time you saw William was when Yumi turned him down for going to the dance and the last time you saw Sissi was when she walked away from Odd just learning that Ulrich ditched her (ouch!). Opens the possibility of some change in characters if you ask me.

[LadyLucy offline]

Don't you have to be part of the supercomputer to be able to remeber?

[knifey offline]

Don't you have to be part of the supercomputer to be able to remeber?

I'm sure you have to have some type of connection, but I don't think you have to be virtualized in order to remember due to the fact Jeremie was virtualized only twice and Franz Hopper discovered the ability to RTTP before he could virtualize himself into Lyoko.

[LadyLucy offline]

True...it is so confusing some times.

[Carth]

Don't you have to be part of the supercomputer to be able to remeber?

I'm sure you have to have some type of connection, but I don't think you have to be virtualized in order to remember due to the fact Jeremie was virtualized only twice and Franz Hopper discovered the ability to RTTP before he could virtualize himself into Lyoko.

But, I have question. Is there a possibility that Jer was virtualized before the series began, and simply decided not to go in again? Or is there too much evidence against?

[knifey offline]

Don't you have to be part of the supercomputer to be able to remeber?

I'm sure you have to have some type of connection, but I don't think you have to be virtualized in order to remember due to the fact Jeremie was virtualized only twice and Franz Hopper discovered the ability to RTTP before he could virtualize himself into Lyoko.

But, I have question. Is there a possibility that Jer was virtualized before the series began, and simply decided not to go in again? Or is there too much evidence against?

It is possible, but rather doubtful due to the fact that Odd, Ulrich and Yumi were making a big deal out of sending him to Lyoko. And because of the fact we didn't see any avatar for him but his normal body when Yumi was virtualizing him into Lyoko. So I guess in the end there is just too much evidence against it.

I think its about time we stop straying off-topic and get back to the purpose of this thread. Anyone feel like picking up on William?

[MY85 offline]

Don't you have to be part of the supercomputer to be able to remeber?

I'm sure you have to have some type of connection, but I don't think you have to be virtualized in order to remember due to the fact Jeremie was virtualized only twice and Franz Hopper discovered the ability to RTTP before he could virtualize himself into Lyoko.

But, I have question. Is there a possibility that Jer was virtualized before the series began, and simply decided not to go in again? Or is there too much evidence against?

It is possible, but rather doubtful due to the fact that Odd, Ulrich and Yumi were making a big deal out of sending him to Lyoko. And because of the fact we didn't see any avatar for him but his normal body when Yumi was virtualizing him into Lyoko. So I guess in the end there is just too much evidence against it.

I think its about time we stop straying off-topic and get back to the purpose of this thread. Anyone feel like picking up on William?

I'mn sure Jeremie got virtualized when he first met Aelita as in the case of an emergency when his friends weren't there to help out, or going into Lyoko while testing the virtualization process on himself to make things sure... there's more I could say, but this is just mere assumption and I forgot what else I could say.

Anyways... let me give a shot about William:

Warning: The following statements may be incorrect. This is the kind of stuff animenologist or some other CL fan could do much better than I could, given the fact I'm not a "CL To Death" fan (like TB3, Mewberries151, animenologist and other kind of people who can týpe long a** posts instead of just synthetizing ideas and quick accurate conclusions. Read at your own risk. If there's something incorrect, tell it to me politely and I'll correct it later.

William Dunbar. A new student from Kadic who arrived there after getting kicked off from his previous school due to some flyers issues that involved him (we don't know the real exact details about the flyers that made him get kicked off, or if this is a lie and he left his school for some other different or worse reason).

He studies in the same year and classroom as Yumi Ishiyama, being her the first Team Lyoko member that he has met, and somehow fell attracted to her, even to the point of attempting desperate movements to get her attention and even a kiss on the lips. He knows (or thinks) he's madly in love with Yumi, but Yumi wouldn't be completely open to him because she truly loves Ulrich and the Lyoko story. He is part of one of the two "Love Triangles" (or part of the whole "Love Square") in CL, along with Yumi and Ulrich (the other triangle is YxUxS, each triangle separated by William and Sissi's own love affair).

During the last season, William failed into making Yumi his girlfriend. Yumi's circle of friends didn't accepted him and he mostly drove Ulrich insane, to the points of possible depression, giving him "advice" (Marabounta) or fighting with him (A Bad Turn). He knew that to get more into Yumi, he had to succeed first into getting accepted by her group, which he failed because Yumi's friends know that she and Ulrich want each other, but they can't clear out the whole scene yet.

Stepping aside from the love triangle, William apparenty seems to be of the emo/punk kind of person... at times, seeming to be rebelious. He seems a bit weird... and mysterious, because from what I see, the only goal he has is to make Yumi his girlfriend. Team Lyoko and Sissi seem to have more than 2 goals to accomplish. Not much is known about William, or maybe I'm incorrect.

I think the reasons that made him gain hatred from several CL fans was the attitude he had during this season and getting his nose onto Yumi and Ulrich. Many can point him as an idiot, jerk, a**hole and many other words of the sort for what he did... but in "The Attack Of the Zombies", he felt like he had to take control over the people because he was the oldest student (maybe not, but William felt it that way) and avoiding innocent students getting bitten from the zombies. How would he understand about Lyoko quickly? How would he buy the idea of the RTTP? If someone told him about it during "The Attack Of The Zombies", at first instance it would have seemed to him like a load of fictionary thing that could only be portrayed in movies and sci-fi series. Not even in our real life world we can perform the RTTP process, as far as I know.

As for his tastes and likes, he seems to be into Japanese girls (Yumi, mostly) and as for music, The Subsonics (seriously, Moonscoop should try getting other kinds of music instead of repeating the same tones). He somehow seems to have talent for Art and for fighting and running.


That's all I can think about William. Believe me, this was hard for me to do, given my lack of watching CL and the fact I'm not really good at portraying things like this and lack of serious deep analysis. Enjoy... or ignore.

[Taelia offline]

Actually, you're absolutely correct. William was labelled as a jerk. Many fan fictions, such as Blueyedblonde's Banned From This Love, clearly indicate all the points you mentioned.

[Mewberries151]

Warning: The following statements may be incorrect. This is the kind of stuff animenologist or some other CL fan could do much better than I could, given the fact I'm not a "CL To Death" fan (like TB3, Mewberries151, animenologist and other kind of people who can týpe long a** posts instead of just synthetizing ideas and quick accurate conclusions. Read at your own risk. If there's something incorrect, tell it to me politely and I'll correct it later.

*sweatdrops* ^^ "CL To Death"...I ought to make a DA club with that name.

At any rate, that's a really accurate summary of William's character in season 2. Nicely written!

[The BB of C offline]

It was lengthly too. I'll bet he had someone on the inside for that. Darn, that was good.

[animenologist offline]

I agree, fairly well-done. I agree with most of it, though I kinda disagree that William wasn't a bit of a jerk in Attack of the Zombies, but imo one of the biggest showings of his arrogance. His opinion that as the oldest, he should be in charge, which to me basically equates to "I'm bigger, so I'm better and thus I should lead", which is not really a good reason, especially since Christoph M'bala was there and could of used the exact same reason to claim power on him (we never did find out their birthdays). Either way, I consider using his age as his claim to authority very poor and seemed to basically manhandle his way there. After all, Jeremie leads the Lyoko gang and he's the youngest as well as being much more understanding of his teammates situations than William. The fact that he was kicked out of his last school speaks even less about how trustworthy as an authoritative figure he is.

Second, you stated that William didn't have reason to believe Jeremie's story about Lyoko or XANA. But at the same time, there were zombies right outside the door. I'm pretty sure he's never seen zombies in real life and here they are in the flesh. So if 3 people (2 of which are very smart and sensible people) says that the cause is a malicious computer, I'd give them the benefit of a doubt, at the very least, let them do what they want to do. Sissi was much more understanding than William, and Sissi's problem didn't have a supernatural bend to it. I would think he would be more understanding of Jeremie, since he had to go through the exact same thing with the police a few minutes ago, but not listening to them didn't make him a good leader, it only made him a bully.

Otherwise, nice work .

[Taelia offline]

In a similar manner to Jeremie, the character of Nigel Uno from Kids Next Door is also the youngest but is the leader of a team.

[Carth]

I thought Kuki was the youngest.

Anyway, back on topic...

[Taelia offline]

We don't even know anything about William's parents.

[Akito offline]

We know not much of William himself either.

[MY85 offline]

Thanks guys.

Second, you stated that William didn't have reason to believe Jeremie's story about Lyoko or XANA. But at the same time, there were zombies right outside the door. I'm pretty sure he's never seen zombies in real life and here they are in the flesh. So if 3 people (2 of which are very smart and sensible people) says that the cause is a malicious computer, I'd give them the benefit of a doubt, at the very least, let them do what they want to do. Sissi was much more understanding than William, and Sissi's problem didn't have a supernatural bend to it. I would think he would be more understanding of Jeremie, since he had to go through the exact same thing with the police a few minutes ago, but not listening to them didn't make him a good leader, it only made him a bully.

Otherwise, nice work .

Well... how could one react to believe in Lyoko? Yeah, I forgot to mention he was a total jerk and bully on that episode. How would William assume that Jeremie could lead them all? He doesn't even know them that well, except for knowing Yumi. There's a 50-50 on William: being a bully and trying to defend the others assuming he was the oldest guy and that deaths shouldn't happen to anyone, even to Ulrich.

We know not much of William himself either.

That's the problem when one tries to figure out William.

[DELETED offline]

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[animenologist offline]

I would expect that they were trying to portray him negatively as a bully who manhandled himself into the lead position. Within any group of similar aged individuals, especially for teenagers, when is a good argument for leadership "Because I'm older than you?" Might as well say, because I'm taller, because I'm stronger, because I can beat you up. They're each as valid a reason for authority and they're all childish. Again, if someone came out with a story about Lyoko out of the blue, for no apparent reason, there may be reason for doubt. But here, they had zombies and 3 people are pleading that they know whats behind it and how to stop it and he just wiped it off as a madman's rantings. If he had been at Kadic for any good amount of time, he would know Jeremie is the smartest kid in school, he knows Aelita is smart from a previous episode from Final Mix, and he has communicated with Odd at times. So if he wouldn't believe the words of 3 (well 2 really) sensible and understandable people, he shouldn't be leading. Really the fact that at the end, Jeremie's final words were "you can never guess a person's true colors, can you?" were in relation to William and the fact that he acted poorly in this episode seemed like they were trying to show William off as forceful in trying to get his own way.

[Skipperdee offline]

Again, if someone came out with a story about Lyoko out of the blue, for no apparent reason, there may be reason for doubt. But here, they had zombies and 3 people are pleading that they know whats behind it and how to stop it and he just wiped it off as a madman's rantings. If he had been at Kadic for any good amount of time, he would know Jeremie is the smartest kid in school, he knows Aelita is smart from a previous episode from Final Mix, and he has communicated with Odd at times. So if he wouldn't believe the words of 3 (well 2 really) sensible and understandable people, he shouldn't be leading.

Agreed. And even if they weren't "smart and sensible", just average people, if they say they can help, as leader, you ought to accept their help for the good of the group. Desperate times call for desperated measures and all. If you were leading a group and one of the group members fell unconscious, you wouldn't turn down a person who says they know CPR and can help, no matter who they were. A good leader would never turn down help from anywhere if innocent people's lives were at stake, and that's what William did.

[DELETED offline]

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[TB3]

Hmm, guys - here's a screenshot from 'Uncharted Territory' which definately piques my interest;

Franz's signitures

Is it of any value that they're completely different? If so - what could this possibly mean?

PS: I don't think it's simply because Franz chnaged his signiture - I work in a supermarket and have to cheque people's signitures on cheques against the ones they put on the back of their Credit Cards - they rarely change and when they do, I get suspicious, and after two years of experience in this job I am right now, very suspicious.

[oddsgrlfriend offline]

It could just be because of the angle that they are viewed. Otherwise it tells us that someone other than Franz Hopper worte those documents.

[LadyLucy offline]

That would actually be a good plot twist....Franz is a theif or something...

[TB3]

Hmm, just out of interest I wrote out the two signitures just to see what they 'felt' like to write and they seem like different styles of handwriting.



If you look at the top signiture, note the large amounts of loops used, and that they first leg of the 'H' has to be added seperately, wheras the 'F', 'z' and the 'H's' second leg are done in one neat line. Also note the flourishing capital 'R' at the end, and the precise underscore which links with the bottoms of both 'p's.

The second signiture is far simpler, removing the underscore and capital 'r' - also note the gap between the initials and surname and the suggestion of an 'r' in the first part - 'Frz Hopper' rather than the top's 'Fz Hopper' - the H as well is very different.

Now, as I'm sure we all know from experience, everyone tends towards a specific handwriting - after drawing the two signitures I tried writing them and the first signiture came easily, it fitted my style - the second felt completely 'wrong' and I actually found I was instinctively writing it differently on several occasions i.e. interlinking the letters 'opper' - this is by no means conclusive, but it suggests to me that these are not two varieties drawn by one person, but two attempts at the same signiture by different people.

As for which signiture is 'real' I'm inclining towards the first - it's a deed for the Hermitage so the tie to him is closer than the school one, and we know Franz played the piano quite well, noteowrthy because the 'F' seems very similar to the musical notation for a Treble Clef;



You can try writing these out for yourself and I'd be interested in your findings - what I'm coming down to though is this;

I don't think the animators would make a blunder like this - drawing the same signiture in different ways, on the same animation cell as well! In my mind, this was intentional - as to what that implies, well we'll have to wait and see.