Lyoko Freak: 2005 - 2015. Return to the past now....

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General original series discussion (Seasons 1-4)

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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:20 pm

I thought about starting a thraed like this but I forgot. I'm glad you guys started one!

Here's why I think time travel to the past is possible, but imporoble.

Einstein’s theories of general and special relativity can be used to actually prove that time travel is possible. Government research experiments have yielded experimental data that conclusively illustrate that fast moving aircraft have traveled into the future. This phenomenon is due to the principal of time dilation, which states that bodies moving at high velocities experience a time that ticks slower than the time measured at zero velocity.Not as much time elapses for a moving body as does for everything else. Wormholes and closed timelike curves are possible means of returning to the past. Traveling into the past is a task which is much more difficult than traveling into the future. This feat has not yet been accomplished -to our knowledge- and its theory involves complicated scenarios of tears in four dimensional space-time, and traveling near the speed of light. Obstacles which prevent our hubris attempts to cheat time include our inability to move even close to the speed of light, and finding a source of energy as powerful as an exploding star. But since the supercomputer has a uranium cell, well, then it's possible!

Most of you have probobly already heard all of that.

There would, though, need to be something that would propel everyone to near the speed of light like a vehicel for instance. Craft traveling at this speed will take us near the speed of light, where time actually slows down. This is what’s known as time dilation. Einstein’s theories predict that the faster a spacecraft moves, the slower time ticks inside of it. Imagine that a rocket ship takes off from earth and approaches the speed of light. If we were to watch it from earth with a very powerful telescope as it traveled away from us, we would see everyone inside the ship as being frozen in time. To us their time would slow down, but to them nothing would change! This has been measured in the laboratory and on location using atomic clocks, aircraft, satellites and rockets. It is proven that time slows down the faster you move.

Now, how this is done with just a time bubble, I don't see how. But whatever, Franz Hopper found a way.

In an article I read on the web, I found this:

In 1975 Professor Carol Allie of the University of Maryland tested Einstein’s theory using two synchronized atomic clocks. One clock was loaded on a plane and flown for several hours, while the other clock remained on the ground at the air base. Upon return, the clock on board the plane was found to be ever so slightly slower that the one on the ground. This was not due to experimental error, and has been repeated numerous times with the same result. This difference in time is even more pronounced in satellites such as the space station. This is because these objects are traveling at speeds much faster and for much longer periods than possible in an airplane. The faster an object moves, the more time is distorted.


Now that we know that it is possible to travel into the future by moving at great speeds, the next problem is how to travel in time a respectable amount without having to sit in a fast moving spaceship for years. This problem is solved by the theoretical existence of what are know as closed timelike curves, and wormholes.



Cool, huh? Excpet there's no way to return to the past... hmmmmm... can't fix that problem.
Or is there?

Space-time consists of points or events that represent a particular place at a particular time. Your entire life thus forms a sort of twisting, turning worm in space time! The tip of the worm’s tail would be your birth and its head is the event of your death. The line which this worm creates with its body is called that object’s worldline.

It's proposed that a black holes gravity can change this "worm" and distort it, therefore it would be possible to return to the past if it was distorted in the correct way.
Like this article says:

Now if an object’s worldline were to be distorted so much as to form a loop that connected with a point on itself that represented an earlier place and time, it would create a corridor to the past! Picture a loop to loop track that smashes into itself as it comes back around. This closed loop is called a closed timelike curve. Timelike means that the body under consideration experiences time that increases in one direction along its worldline


This is essentially what was written about in "Alice in Wonderland’s Through the Looking Glass." Her looking glass was a wormhole that connected her home in Oxford, with wonderland. All she had to do was climb into her looking glass and she would emerge on the other side of forever. In reality however, it would require a much more elaborate scheme to create a wormhole that connects two different points in space-time. First it would require the construction of two identical machines consisting of two huge parallel metal plates that are electrically charged with unbelievable amounts of energy. When the machines are placed in proximity of each other, the enormous amounts of energy -about that of an exploding star- would rip a hole in space-time and connect the two machines via a wormhole. This is possible, and the beginnings of it have been illustrated in the lab by what is known as the Casimir Effect. The next task would be to place one of these machines on a craft that could travel at close to the speed of light. The craft would take one machine on a journey while it was still connected to the one on earth via the wormhole. Now, a simple step into the wormhole would transport you to a different place and a different time.

Wormholes and closed timelike loops appear to be the main ways that time travel into the past would be possible. The limitation on this time travel into the past is that it would be impossible to travel back to a time before the machine was originally created. Although the aforementioned theories of general relativity are consistent for closed timelike curves and wormholes, the theories say nothing about the actual process of traveling through them. Quantum mechanics can be used to model possible scenarios, and yields the probability of each possible output.

And since the supercomputer utilizes quantum machanics there's no doubt it's possible.

I always wanted to talk about this stuff to other poeple but no one ever wants to listen. But you guys do! SOrry for the long post by the way.
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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:33 pm

Also, the reason they return to the past in the way they do is because:

When XANA attacks there is a rip in the space time continuim, made by the theoretical machine of the two metal plates I explained in the above message.. Where the machine is, well, it's probobly inside the supercomputer.
When they retunr to the past everything in the universe gets sucked into that rip, then they get returned to the past. How far is determined by the laws of physics. Physics say that they would return to the point at which the rip in the psace time continuim was first created. And that was when XANA attacked!
SO when they retunr to the past tehy retunr to when XANA first attacked. But what I don't understand is why the kids always remember everything and why XANA dosn't just attack again.

<b>Post merge point.</b>

I type so fast I can't spell anything right!
TB3 wrote:Any other theories on how other apsects of the tech work (again please read the threads to thispoint to prevent the same-thing being said twice)?

Greta to have you oboard!


Thanks! I love talking about this stuff. And yes, I read all the other posts. Very interesting indeed.
By the way when I said wormhole i meant WORMHOLE, I meant to be talking about the black holes.
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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:41 pm

yes, that's possible, but in my opinion no one in the world would even begin the comprehend how to do it. Not even a guiness like Franz Hopper could do it. That would be recreating new physics, and totally re-writing how time works.
You would be using things other than time to mess with time, such as things no one knows about to transfer thoughts through time in such a way.
On the werge of impossible I say. But man, this is better than choclate talking about this kinda stuff! I LOVE IT!!!!

P.S.
In my opinion there's no such thing as Zero-Point-Energy space alone. It's contained within normal space, therefore they have the same physics. It dosn't matter which space the wormhole extands into, normal space or ZPE space.
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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:51 pm

Yeah, it's sci-fi, and In my opnion antefilms really researched alot and worked hard on code lyoko. It's so well thought out, especially the tech.

And could you explain ZPE space to me, all I know is ZPE is the energy from atoms. I don't get what your saying when you say ZPE space.
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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:08 pm

yes I have read them.


Now I get what your saying. I actually didn't know any of that.
That whole thing gives me another theory.
The towers in lyoko connect the real world to lyoko, correct?
maybe The towers act as a way to get from our space to ZPE space!
And that would mean that lyoko is not a computer generated reality. It is, in fact, a real parralel world! IT'S A ZPE WORLD!

Have you ever herad on the code lyoko website, in the summary, when they say lyoko is a parralel universe?
I always said, "Nah. That's just a rough translation from virtual reality in french"

But now I'm starting to think it IS in fact a parralel world. It exists in ZPE space!

OH MY GOSH THAT IS SO F**KIN' AWSOME!!!

this is why this thread is better than choclate.
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Postby animenologist » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:12 pm

Can you explain how your current theory deals with the problem of those who die but not due to Xana's attacks, JeremyHopper? In most of the dialog, they usually point to stating only those who die due to Xana's attack are not brought back. If you're current theory was taken as is, then after every attack there would be a load of unexplainable deaths around the world. The estimated death rate around the world is 1.78 deaths per second. And some of these attacks can last for hours. And the fact that sometimes they can traverse back in time a full day, that would be about 153,000 unexplained deaths just suddenly appearing with no apparent cause. Have that happen multiple times and it would seem epidemic. I'm not trying to be overly antagonistic of your theory, I just think it could use a bit of retooling. Love the overall concept though.

And yeah, the RTTP does not directly relate to the time of attack. Multiple times they chose coordinates for their specific time jumps. Also since the creation of the super scan, there is an accurate guage at the point in time when Xana begins his attacks. In "Attack of the Zombies" Xana started his attack at night time, but when the jump to the past occurred it was day time. Also in Exploration, a return trip was started despite Xana not having launched an official attack in that time frame.

Also, I think we need to state that the console's kernal is given immunity from the RTTP. In "A Great Day", Xana took over the console with bugged data, he used the console to continuously launch a return to the past. If the console didn't have some form of immunity, Xana's control would instantly be removed since the console would be reset, aswell as his bugged data. I'm thinking this could be done with a kernal rootkit. After Xana used the bugged data to implant his kernal rootkit, he could then use it as a back door to take over the console after each time he returns to the past. After each return trip, all his control over the console would be removed aswell his access to use the RTTP. But since the kernal would be immune and he implanted a kernal rootkit, he would continue to have access to the console and would continue the process of taking over the RTTP and then launch it. Would kinda make sense.
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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:20 pm

animeologist wrote:Can you explain how your current theory deals with the problem of those who die but not due to Xana's attacks, JeremyHopper? In most of the dialog, they usually point to stating only those who die due to Xana's attack are not brought back. If you're current theory was taken as is, then after every attack there would be a load of unexplainable deaths around the world. The estimated death rate around the world is 1.78 deaths per second. And some of these attacks can last for hours. And the fact that sometimes they can traverse back in time a full day, that would be about 153,000 unexplained deaths just suddenly appearing with no apparent cause. Have that happen multiple times and it would seem epidemic. I'm not trying to be overly antagonistic of your theory, I just think it could use a bit of retooling. Love the overall concept though.


That's exactly right. I think my theory may be correct, and that's what would happen. I just think code lyoko wasn't written with that kind of depth.

Your right with the fact that they retunr to the past even when XANA dosn't attack.
That would mean they can set when to retunr to the past to.
Yet, that statement disobeys the laws of physics. It's impossible to retunr to the past whenever, unless the space time continumim machine was constantly renewing itself.
But that would cause the quantum battery to deplete extremly quickly, like, in a matter of seconds.
RTTP is most likely the most computer ibtensive and qunatum power draing proccess in the supercomputer. Doing a bunch of times per second would deplet the battery.

TB3 wrote:PS: I love your music videos and the I-Pod avatars.


The ipod avatars arn't mine. But the music videos are, thanks!
And I think that converting quantum bits to binary bits is impossible. But nothing is impossible in childrens sci-fi soap operas!
By the way, when Jeremy says that a qubit doubles everytime they retunr to the past, that is incorrect.
Last edited by JeremyHopper on Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DL » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:22 pm

I have been doing somethinking and I have realized something: the RTTP might not be a way to travel back in time! It sounds crazy but hear me out. If it were a true return in ime it would work like it did in Back ot the future (pts 1-3). For example when someone was killed there(only if it was in the future or alternate present) the person was brought back to life when everything was fixed in the end. for all we know the RTTP might just create an alternate timeline, one that exists parallel to the timeline in which XANA attacked. Basically one timeline would end with the RTTP and another would begin, one that was the same as if XANA had never attacked. It may seem like a jump back in time but in reality an alternate timeline might just be easier to create than a full on jump through time. Also it would explain the ZPE world since if something like that were to exist it would be immune to an alternate timeline since it is not really a part of the realility that was altered. But this would only work if the ZPE world existed outside of the universal timeline meaning that it would have to me an alternate universe. Basically it would be on the outside of the space-time curveature and yet parallel and some how connected, most likely through the super calculator, so that it could be monitered in real-time

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Postby JeremyHopper » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:26 pm

you know dl, you have a point. maybe they don't return to the past.
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Postby DL » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:35 pm

about the fading of Lyoko that can be explained as the link betwwen the super calculator and the other world fading, meaning that they would not be able to get a connection. It would be like if you disconnected your internet and then tried to go on it and couldn't. It doesn't mean that the internet was part of your computer it just means that you have no connection or way of connecting. Also about the stream of data back in time. There is a major flaw there. There is no way a computer could record all the data in the universe since if it was a data stream back into the past everything would need to be transferred not just the data from earth.

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Postby animenologist » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:42 pm

I'm not saying the console is completely immune, just parts of it. Mainly the kernal. If the console didn't retain atleast some immunity, all the data that was downloaded to the console would have been erased and so would Xana's hold on the RTTP program. I'm saying that Xana infected the kernal using a root kit allowing access to the console despite the return trips, And thus used it as an access point to continue his attack until it was found out and removed.
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Postby DL » Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:45 pm

TB3 I am agreeing that your meathod would preserve the most energy but the problem I have is how does the data get back in time in the first place. If we could find out a plausible way of that occuring then your theory would most likely work. But until then it just leaves a rather large question that needs to be answered

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Postby DL » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:00 pm

I apologize for my last post. I should have been more clear. First I did read you other posts and the problem I have with a worm hole is that for that to work there would need to be one on the other end of the timestream, where the RTTP is targeted. In order to do this Jeremy would have to begin to program the first worm hole the second that the RTTP returns them to. Basically so as an example I will point to Teddygodzilla sinse I just watched it. In order of the gang to return to fixing up the gym for the prom or dance or whatever Jeremy would need to create a wormhole at that second in time.

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Postby animenologist » Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:02 pm

A kernel is the core of a computer's operating system that provides secure access to the machine's hardware and the other computer processes. Its basically the thing that controls the operating system and links the various actions a computer does together.

A rootkit if you don't know, is a program that is very similar to a virus, in that it tries to modify the components it infects. The difference is that a rootkit sticks to the system that its trying to modify while viruses multiply and spread to other systems and components, usually meant as a way to conceal its operations since it stays and infects one thing. So a kernel rootkit is a rootkit that modifies the core of an operating system.

If the virus is maintained by the activated tower, then couldn't Xana activate a tower just to gain control of the console, instead requiring bugged data to act as a gateway to the console? I would think that had the link been severed, the activated tower would just re-route its resources towards a new action. So just because a virus is activated and maintained by the tower, doesn't mean it the link can't be broken without deactivating the tower. Just like in Franz Hopper, using the decoy, Jeremie disables Xana's polymorphic clone even though the tower still stood. After a minor setback, Xana just used the resources of the tower to create another spector to choke Jeremie.
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