Let's talk tech (Now with Glossary)!

[TB3]

ARGH! YDV and me posted at the same time - it's just like the old days.

YDV, I agree in every way, except for one - turning the computer off will not conserve the nuclear battery - it will continue to emit particle radiation, but it will go to waste - that's the downside to this fictional technology - the life-span is fixed.

Oh and mingling the 'origin of XANA' theories - the pattern of the MAS system could be compared to a virus, so what if IT got corrupted and Franz never noticed.

[YDV offline]

...Ah. Sorry, I wasn't thinking about half-lives and all that good nuclear stuff. ^^; (Although theortically, couldn't one just manufacture more batteries using the scanners..?)

[TB3]

...Ah. Sorry, I wasn't thinking about half-lives and all that good nuclear stuff. ^^; (Although theortically, couldn't one just manufacture more batteries using the scanners..?)

Possibly - Jeremie might not have developed his 'materialise an object I've designed' program yet at the time.

Any thoughts on new thread names or if we should try to stretch this one?

[YDV offline]

LTT2: The Technobabble Returnseth.

[animenologist offline]

Although I don't personally subscribe to this, a prevalent theory of XANA's betrayal was that it was a virus implanted by Hopper's various enemies. Both codelyoko.com and the Moonscoop website gives references to a virus as the cause of trouble. Possible to put in a small note stating it as an alternative theory.

You know what? You're right. I keep forgetting we have to actually go by what was "officially" stated, rather than what we would like to have happened so it fits in with our ideas. Adapt, adapt, all in a day's work for a Lyokologist.

Normally, I would share the same line of thinking. That an official source trumps our normal thoughts and desires. Unfortunately, what we deem "official" doesn't even agree on the point of what exactly XANA is or the reason he went rogue. On codelyoko.com, XANA is a supervirus that infected the supercomputer. But that implies a force outside of Hopper was the cause of all the trouble. And it has been shown that Hopper is definitively XANA's creator. On Moonscoop, it was stated that XANA was the supercomputer, but Hopper addressed XANA as a separate entity to the supercomputer. In a way, I think of it as additional leeway to be more liberal with our thoughts. Its also why I suggested placing a note as an alternate theory.

As for the battery, yes, since its nuclear, it will eventually run down, even without the computer running. I agree with TB3 that Jeremie may have not perfected a materialization program for inanimate objects. For all we know, all of his creations outside of the supercomputer could of been created on his own resources. After all, Jeremie has created 2 robots and an EMP using a couple of car batteries. Using the same resources, and blue prints from Hopper's diary, its possible to create a the helmet from Temptation.

For turning in the essay to Moonscoop, I'd say turn in both. They're busy people, best to give them the easy version to get the idea, and the long version for some recreational reading and inspiration. As for names, I'm for giving it a decimal number like 2.0 or 1.1 (or 1.2) or you can go for how science fiction names where they give it name some random number like 2000 or 42.

[Omega offline]

Ah, just thought I might give a name suggestion:

Let's Talk Tech
episode II
Revenge of the
Tech

Just a thought, since there won't be an "episode III" most likely.

[mooshie offline]

well due to the philosophical arguement "I think therefore I am" and the marabounta theory if many unthinking programs are combined then it becomes one large thinking program, then if a program thinks more one is more and the computer on which xana is just a program infected with a virus has another program return to the past so if it has enough memory devoted to it or thinks enough then theoretically it could be a 4-dimnsional being able to traverse time and space and of course who is to say that isn't how xana transfers energy to that which is possesed by him but in the probable event that this theory is discredited the nanites that posses whatever it is they posses might store the energy or the might convert matter into energy, such as in teddygozilla what if the reason the bear was eating the clothes was so it could feed it's growing proces by converting that matter into energy then back int matter, more speccifically teddybear matter keep in mind all of this was derived by using a quote out of context, and a fictional theory developed by a fictional person

[TB3]

We do use someting to that effect - we do have nano-machines as the key to Xana's possessions (we call them 'routers'), but I doubt XANA is 4-D, otherwise he would be undefeatable - able to glean knowledge from the future and fight with it.

Oh and welcome to LTT mooshie!

[Jeremified offline]

Lol, this post is getting locked VERY soon. This is, I think, the 968th post, if I'm correct.

[YDV offline]

Yeah, basically I agree with what he said.

NICE avatar, TB3!

EDIT: You're right.. we need to decide on a name for the next thread.

[Jazzy Josh offline]

Let's Talk Tech two

Let's Talk Tech again...

[animenologist offline]

Should also start doing the endword, since this is going to be the end of this thread (soon enough, anyways). It's a chance to share our thoughts, experiences, compliments, and outlook on this thread, even if you aren't a primary contributor. I think TB3 should start us off, since he was the threads creator, to say the final good-byes to this particular version.

[MY85 offline]

Should also start doing the endword, since this is going to be the end of this thread (soon enough, anyways). It's a chance to share our thoughts, experiences, compliments, and outlook on this thread, even if you aren't a primary contributor. I think TB3 should start us off, since he was the threads creator, to say the final good-byes to this particular version.

Sounds fair to me.

I haven't browsed through the entire thread yet, but yeah, it's a good geeky job.

Are you in for a BKO afterparty for this thread? (TB3 should do that one)

[TB3]

Oh wow guys - cheers!

Well as for an endword - what should we have? I did think of writing a euology - so I personally would like to write up the founding, the original reaction, thank everyone etc.

I'll write that up this week and post it ASAP. Do you guys want to do something similar?

As for a BKO party - would anyone want to come to it? If so then great!

And for the next thread, hows Let's Talk Tech II, Hopper's Principles sound?

And as a quick footnote before I finish this, I'm stunned and amazed that this thread came to this point - it really blows my mind that so many people appreciate it!

Thankyou, all.

[Jeremified offline]

As for a BKO party - would anyone want to come to it? If so then great!

I can't use BKO yet! I'm still 12 years, 8 months, and 8 days until I turn 13!!

[TB3]

Hi guys - just poking around on codelyoko.net and I found a few little technical pages of their own - all in French obviously so I had to use a translator.

The person (Korki) basically talks about 'what' we see in the show, rather than theorising on 'how' it all works - where they make suggestions though it's compatible with what we've said.

The interesting point they make (and I don't know if this is supported or not), but to simulate a human brain the computer needs to have 100 qubits or more, and that if it had 300 qubits it could simulate the evolution of the entire universe from the Big Bang to now.

This might need to be taken with a pinch of salt though as it then says the computer gains a qubit with every RTTP (which we know is not true) - if true, then by the time Franz finished programming Lyoko the computer could probably tell you everything that's ever happened or is gonna happen, past, present and future, devise a cure for every disease in the world and give you God's telephone number!

But the point on how many qubits the computer needs to support a human brain might warrant looking into.

[Cassius335 offline]

PS:
It'll soon be 1000 posts - should we ask the mods to delete some posts to stretch this thread's lifespan, or start a new one? And if so, what should we name that thread - Let's Talk Tech II?

LTT2: Free Range Thought

[animenologist offline]

*Please note that a human brain's capacity and speed is not measured in FLOPs or MIPS, and that all conversions to which are estimates stated by the articles I have looked up.

Well, I've read a few articles that state that to simulate the human brain, you would require a 100 qubit quantum computer. Of interesting note, it would take 1000 logical qubits to simulate the coffee molecule by solving the Schrodinger's equation, in polynomial time.

In another article I have read, Deep Blue, the computer that defeated Garry Kasparov in chess used specialized hardware to calculate moves at the speed of 3,000,000 MIPS (millions instructions per second) in terms of universal computer speed. According to them, thats a bit less than 1/30 the speed of a human brain.

In an article produced by Carnegie-Mellon, they stated that a 1,500 gram human brain can churn about 100 trillion IPS (100 million MIPS), which is about 3 times faster than that of Japan's Earth Simulator, the world's most powerful supercomputer from 2002-2004. Earth Simulator was capable of about 35.86 trillion floating point operations per second (or 35.86 trillion FLOPs or 35.86 TFLOPs). For the record, an average adult brain is about 1,300-1400 grams. An infant brain is about 350-400 grams.

In 2004, IBM's Blue Gene/L doubled that amount to be able to calculate at 70.72 TFLOPs. On March 2005, it was enhanced to run at 135.5 TFLOPs, and in October, it ran at 280.6 TFLOPs. In an article of Wired, they stated to match the human brain's processiong power, they would require 100 TFLOPs. According to a Robotic Nation, in order to simulate the 100 billion human neurons plus 1000 connections to other neurons, it would require 1,000 TFLOPs. And in another article by Marshall Brain who was the founder of HowStuffWorks, estimated that the amount would be 27,500 quadrillion FLOPs or 27,500,000 TFLOPs, to simulate a human brain. Though whether you feel the sources are valid are up to you. So depending which estimates you consider accurate, Hopper's supercomputer is ahead by a few decades, or a few centuries.

So depending on the estimates, we either currently do have the capability to simulate human intelligence, are within striking distance to simulate human intelligence, or a few decades off from doing so. Of course, having the capability to do so, doesn't mean we'll do it. To create and program such a computer of that magnitude would take 10s or 100s of millions of dollars to create, which could have been put to better use, doing a more worthwhile task. Why spend 10s of millions to create one human intelligence, when it would be easier to pick out 1 of the several billion we have now?

[MY85 offline]

So depending on the estimates, we either currently do have the capability to simulate human intelligence, are within striking distance to simulate human intelligence, or a few decades off from doing so. Of course, having the capability to do so, doesn't mean we'll do it. To create and program such a computer of that magnitude would take 10s or 100s of millions of dollars to create, which could have been put to better use, doing a more worthwhile task. Why spend 10s of millions to create one human intelligence, when it would be easier to pick out 1 of the several billion we have now?

More than meaning not to do it and being expensive, I think it's illegal. Although, no one bans animal clonation, so you could try the experiment of mind simulation on an animal. Or if you're lucky, get a human being willing to do anything on the experiment with consent and not regretting to retire from it. And if the goal is acheived, then the joke is to reduce costs of human intelligence simulation.

I'll let this thing live a bit... gonna merge double and or triple posts, depending on the case.

<b>Urgent Edit:</b> I deleted only one of the busted TB3's posts. It reduced from 9 to 8. From now on, I'm not touching that account. I don't have any idea of what could happen to that busted account if it reaches to zero.

[TB3]

I'll let this thing live a bit... gonna merge double and or triple posts, depending on the case.

<b>Urgent Edit:</b> I deleted only one of the busted TB3's posts. It reduced from 9 to 8. From now on, I'm not touching that account. I don't have any idea of what could happen to that busted account if it reaches to zero.

Cheers Rodri - I'm still gonna make preparations for this thread to 'die' and be suceeded by another though if that's alright.

(reads edit, sudders)

Don't even remind me of those God-forsaken events - I'd hate to have a relapse so thanks! (thinks, laughs)...actually all these fractures in my account are kinda like what we think happened to Aelita aren't they?

As for the supercalculator, based on what Animenologist said I'd say somewhere in the PetaFLOP range would be sufficient processing power (far in excess of any of the estimates really).

As for the qubits - that's a matter of conjecture. In the end I guess we could just pick a digit (heh, I used to think the computer only had 11 qubits! )

I'm kinda busy for a fortnight now as term's wrapping up and I've got some major essays ahead of me, but I aim to keep working on the article...and once again, I can't believe we reached this point - I mean look back at all that's happened here!

[animenologist offline]

As for the supercalculator, based on what Animenologist said I'd say somewhere in the PetaFLOP range would be sufficient processing power (far in excess of any of the estimates really).

Except for the final estimate made by Marshall, which predicted a necessary 27,500,000 TerraFLOPs, thats 27,500 PetaFLOPs. If his prediction is accurate (which we're not really sure right now), the supercomputer is pushing ExaFLOP range, possibly approaching ZettaFLOP range since it can simulate 4 human minds at once and XANA (on top of its other processes). But the estimate seems a bit sensational, since thats 27,000 times greater than the estimate brought forth by Robotic Nation and 270,000 times greater than Wired.

Actually, IBM has sold its Blue Gene/L models as well as renting out its own machine for brain research and I believe at one time used it to simulate a rat's brain, which further leads me to believe that final estimate may be somewhat exaggerating.

[TB3]

Excellent point - also we need to remember that the supercomputer doesn't need to run those sections of the brain devoted to image reception, bodily functions etc - they could just be idled, or do I have completely the work concept.

And as for Exa and Zeta-flop range, if the computer was pushing those boundaries it's power would be almost Godly, Divine etc. - I guess Peta-FLOPs work right now. What do you think?

[animenologist offline]

Probably functions like normal body functions, like digestive, cardiovascular, and certain other functions would probably be left out and probably placed into other resources such as their abilities and a dampening of pain, as well as possibly giving them knowledge appropriate to their avatars, like how Odd is able to move like a cat so naturally.

And again, I feel that final estimate is greatly sensationalized, so I think the other 2 estimates would be a much more conservative guess. Possibly atleast above 10 petas to be able to hold Hopper, Aelita, the gang, XANA and the necessity of keeping track of their vDNA files and what ever other processes necessary to keep it going.

[Ninjaboi978 offline]

Wow i can harldy even follow a single post on this thread lol! Well anyway im only in 8th grade and my questions may seem a little weak and supid but im trying to grasp this concept. Well first off like goiing to the VERY top of the page. I think moonscoop or antifilms(whichever one were using now) just makes up the code lyoko plot as they go along. In a false start, Jeremy scanned Aleita and found the virus and in season two he was saying how he was finding information about the virus from the data in sector 5. All along there really never was any virus so really it's just like the writers wrote the script like a day before making it, putting in as many twists as possible. Also, if a computer could think at the same rate as a human, wouldnt that make them capable to killing off humans? If there were computers that could think like humans, they could easily see that they are more powerful than us. I don't need someone to tell me when i feel trapped or being used and if the computers can realize that too then they can stop taking orders from us. Unlike people, computers will not need nutrients such as food or water like us. They will be unable to forget things seeing as how they will be stored in files. Another possibility is that if a computer found a way to, it could escape into other computers or even the internet where it will be capable of creating virus and causing world wide panic.

Just a little childish question, but if there was a computer AI that could understand the sence of sight and could have an intelligent conversation with you, and you were talking to it via a mic and headset, what would the AI see??? (woah, MAJOR run on sentence there)

~~~Scott~~~

[MY85 offline]

Okay, let's kill this thread for once and for all... *coughAfterparty...J/K...partytimecough*

XANA was defined as a supercomputer... and Aelita has a virus on her body... being aware that viruses need to know a cellular/molecular structure to start an infection... how much time did it took for XANA to get his virus infecting Aelita? Maybe she stood on Lyoko for 9-10 years... what kept her alive, having the virus on her body at Lyoko?

Hope I didn't made a stupid question...