Let's Talk Tech II - Over a year of Tech! :)

[Cassius335 offline]

I am sugesting that if you were to put your brain directly into the computer and be able to run it at the same speed (aka virtualise it) it could act as its own instruction manual. The most you MIGHT need is maybe a simple driver to act as that bridge... if even that, thought it is possible.

Does that help?

http://www.kevinwarwick.org/

It's certainly possible, but what if your instruction manual is in a lanuage you don't understand? Then you can't use it.

I get the theory, but it's not a case of plug in and go; The computer (or robot arm) needs to be told what impulses mean what motion.

Edit:

A movement is less complex than an emotion. How do you think you will be able to understand what an emotion is?

Emotions such as anger, shock and excitement can be investigated because distinct signals are apparent. For more obtuse emotions such as "Love" we will not be tackling directly.

[TB3]

It's certainly possible, but what if your instruction manual is in a lanuage you don't understand? Then you can't use it.

I get the theory, but it's not a case of plug in and go; The computer (or robot arm) needs to be told what impulses mean what motion.

Hehe - we forget one thing.

Seven...Years - 2456 days of Franz playing 'trial and error' with a virtualised duplicate of himself, developing a system to connect the partical-simulated brain with the avatar locomotion and sensory systems etc.

That should fix it!

[Cassius335 offline]

It would. My point was that such a system would have to exist. You couldn't just plug in a virtual mind into the computer and automatically expect the virtual brain to run an avatar.

And that once such a system does exist, the computer is basically reading the virtual mind, albiet the simpler implulses. Still, if it can read the simpler ones, it's only another period of 'trial and error' (and kissing polymorphs) to the more complex ones.

[TB3]

It would. My point was that such a system would have to exist. You couldn't just plug in a virtual mind into the computer and automatically expect the virtual brain to run an avatar.

And that once such a system does exist, the computer is basically reading the virtual mind, albiet the simpler implulses. Still, if it can read the simpler ones, it's only another period of 'trial and error' (and kissing polymorphs) to the more complex ones.

Except XANA is what's learning about human minds, not the computer, which are two seperate entities.

And unless XANA can pool both it and the computer's reasources, the reading of minds will not occur.

[Cassius335 offline]

XANA is a computer program, is he not? Said pooling of resources is not impossible.

[Reesane offline]

XANA is a computer program, is he not? Said pooling of resources is not impossible.

XANA is a computer based entity. He has emotions (now no longer rudementary. Bha. My spelling sucks; forgiveme.), he run on his own agenda, and he seems to posses creativety. I mean- come on- in "Teddygodzila" he had a whole shead full of dangerous rusty tools, and he picked a teddybear. Why not a lawn mower? Certenly somthing with pre-existing curcutry would be easyer to contol than a wad of stuffing raped in fabric.

[Chosen_one offline]

Okay, I'm going to say something completely stupid that's going to make you all hate me.

Is it possible that Franz Hopper was an incredibly good human biologist and programmed the supercomputer and its operating system to compute, calculate, run, and etc. using the same protocol/language as the natural thought protocol the brain uses? Even if this isn't true, the supercomputer should already have some sort of thing to interpret the information spilled from the brain program.

From what I know about languages, a person uses the language s/he is most fluent in (or uses most often or has the most vocabulary in) to think and calculate. So the supercomputer might for some thoughts interpret the brain's data as pure thought or French.

[Chosen_one offline]

Okay, I'm going to say something completely stupid that's going to make you all hate me.

Is it possible that Franz Hopper was an incredibly good human biologist and programmed the supercomputer and its operating system to compute, calculate, run, and etc. using the same protocol/language as the natural thought protocol the brain uses? Even if this isn't true, the supercomputer should already have some sort of thing to interpret the information spilled from the brain program.

From what I know about languages, a person uses the language s/he is most fluent in (or uses most often or has the most vocabulary in) to think and calculate. So the supercomputer might for some thoughts interpret the brain's data as pure thought or French.

[Cassius335 offline]

Okay, I'm going to say something completely stupid that's going to make you all hate me.

Is it possible that Franz Hopper was an incredibly good human biologist and programmed the supercomputer and its operating system to compute, calculate, run, and etc. using the same protocol/language as the natural thought protocol the brain uses? Even if this isn't true, the supercomputer should already have some sort of thing to interpret the information spilled from the brain program.

From what I know about languages, a person uses the language s/he is most fluent in (or uses most often or has the most vocabulary in) to think and calculate. So the supercomputer might for some thoughts interpret the brain's data as pure thought or French.

That's basically it, though the 'trail and error' thing works too!

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

No, I don't think so. as the human mind is less effect than a modern day computer... smarter, but not as effective, At least in speed and power.
The cupercompter is far more that any thing we have now... so it realy doesn't make sence. the only thing he might have made like that is a somethign to assest in helping comuncate witht he brain (wheirther you belive it could be connected as I have said or not)

And I don't think your right about the lanuage thing.. yes, the one you are most familler with is the one you would think with.

maybe I'm jsut confused...

either way I'll be back latter after school

[JeremieCompNerd offline]

I know this is old news, but could you rehost the finished manuscript you took to Paris, perhaps as a regular post here w/ the pictures linked? I wanted to show this to some people, but yousendit dropped your page. Thanks TB3!

Terribly sorry to repost this, but I'm guessing it was just not seen.

[TB3]

I know this is old news, but could you rehost the finished manuscript you took to Paris, perhaps as a regular post here w/ the pictures linked? I wanted to show this to some people, but yousendit dropped your page. Thanks TB3!

Terribly sorry to repost this, but I'm guessing it was just not seen.

Sure man, I'll get down to it now

On another note, I just got back from an hour spent at the bar with my peers, and I ended up explaining LTT to a fellow student - he seemed 50% confused but as we parted ways said he liked it

LTT grows in power!

BTW, more and more nowadays I find science books suggesting similar ideas to ours as means to time-travel and other interesting functions - makes me feel we're on the right track!

Oh, regarding the whole 'thinking language' business - there was a good book called 'Firefox' (which ended up as an abysmal Clint Eastwood film) about a top secret fictional Soviet jet called the Mig-31 Firefox, which had thought-controlled weapons (note, after the book was written the USSR gave the designation Mig-31 to a real jet).

The key to flying it, as the lead scientist put it is "you must think in Russian - you cannot hope to give the mental command in English and expect it to fire - think in Russian".

Clearly, since Yumi is more likely to think in Japanese than French, this cannot be the case for us, but in truth it is a radically different method.

The Mig-31 Firefox ( beautiful jet, even if it isn't real, image here ) used a helmet worn by the pilot connected to the weapons computer - the helmet monitored the brain for neural patterns in the language centres corresponding to the Russian for 'Fire Missiles' or 'Fire Chaff', and then acted accordingly. Hence the ability to "think in Russian" was key to piloting the jet.

A similar thing happened in the anime 'Neon Genesis Evangelion', where two pilots (Japanese boy Shinji Ikari and German girl Auska Langley Sohryu) are placed in the cockpit of Auska's thought-controlled giant robot/biological war machine - because the language matrix is configured for German, Shinji's Japanese thoughts cause white-noise in the system and prevent the machine from activatating.

In response Auska reconfigures the matrix for Japanese and (being a prodigy) is able to think in the language of the Land of the Rising Sun and viola, a marvellous victory is achieved.

That robot, like the Firefox, had to try and 'read' the mind through a neural interface worn on the head (a pair of hairclips which could sense impulses in the A10 nerve cluster of the cerebral cortex). The signals picked up by the hairclips were then transmitted into the robot's own nervous system - thus it was thought controlled, but the driver system was dependant on language.

The supercomputer however has the advantage of being able to work directly off the simulated neural impulses running out of the brain down the virtual spinal column and nervous system, impulses which are indentical regardless of the user's language.

And for operations such as the 'avatar design' sequence, it only has to monitor the pleasure centres of the brain and note down a strong response.

By this means (and by trial-and-error design of a driver system), Franz could devise the means for a person to exist within Lyoko without he himself having to be a genius pscycologist and biologist, which is not to say that he couldn't be proficiant in either field, just that he didn't have to have degrees and mastery of every science under the sun.

This work for you guys?

[TB3]

Double Post I know but what the heck!

JeremieCompNerd, here's the file

Let's Talk Tech: Hopper's Principles

ENJOY!

[JeremieCompNerd offline]

Ahhh, we marvel in your ability to carry out our requests.... Thanks!
LoL.

And yes, that is a very nice fighter jet.

[Cassius335 offline]

This work for you guys?

Yep.

[Chosen_one offline]

Clearly, since Yumi is more likely to think in Japanese than French, this cannot be the case for us, but in truth it is a radically different method.

Actually, as much as it makes sense, that's not true. It's actually VERY unlikely that Yumi thinks in Japanese because she lives in France.

I know that might sound strange, but Yumi almost always speaks to her friends and family in French rather than Japanese, meaning that she uses French MUCH more. In fact, she uses French so much that it has replaced Japanese as the dominant language in her mind.

The same thing has happened to me; I am a Chinese immigrant living in the United States. Clearly, I *should* be thinking in Chinese, but I use English so much around my friends, strangers, outsiders, family, and you guys that English has replaced Chinese as the dominant language in my mind. In fact, I earlier immigrated to Japan and eventually learned to speak Japanese fluently, but when I moved to America, I spoke English so much that I had forgotten Japanese.

I was trying to say that the supercomputer could understand all languages, but impulses are better.

[Sithking Zero offline]

Well, perhaps at home the creators of the show are using a technique I like to call "Shadow Acting."

What this means is that, though the person appears to be speaking in the dominant language that we can understand, the person is actually speaking in a different tounge. I first saw this in the movie Squanto, where there are scenes where the indians appear to be speaking fluent english to fellow tribesmen, but this is clearly not the case. So though Yumi may sound like she's speaking in french at home, she may actually be speaking Japanese. Do you guys get what I'm saying?

[Lani offline]

Maybe the supercompy doesn't really detect your thoughts in language as you think them in your head, but rather as like brainwaves or something? Like, technically, if you tell yourself to "raise my right arm," the impulse in your brain should be the same in no matter what language you're thinking in. Although spoken language is another story... I think I had a theory but it ran away :x

Ya just my two cents!


EDIT:

What this means is that, though the person appears to be speaking in the dominant language that we can understand, the person is actually speaking in a different tounge. I first saw this in the movie Squanto, where there are scenes where the indians appear to be speaking fluent english to fellow tribesmen, but this is clearly not the case. So though Yumi may sound like she's speaking in french at home, she may actually be speaking Japanese. Do you guys get what I'm saying?

That's what I'd been thinking all along, too. I mean, if you're from another country, you just don't come home and start talking in the local language to your parents. Siblings, sure. Take my mom, for example. She's from the Philippines, and when she came home from school etc. she'd speak to her parents and her older older siblings in Tagalog. But if her life was a movie made elsewhere, she'd be speaking the vernacular.


NOW I go.

[Sithking Zero offline]

That was Chosen One's idea.

As for language barriers...

Maybe there's a translation program on the Supercomputer?

[TB3]

Lani, Sithking, Chosen One - nice to see fresh faces and ideas round here - thanks!

That was Chosen One's idea.

As for language barriers...

Maybe there's a translation program on the Supercomputer?

I don't really see that working - even with excellent translation software and an extremely powerful computer running it, errors will creep in.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but I'll only buy it when I see Yumi say "All your towers XANA are belong to us!"

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

That's what I've been saying... you brain is doing the work.
When you think I want to do this, you don't think how... and most don't even know the exact details of how... you just do.

The brain is sending the same singles... and so I PERNALY think is it acts as the main instructions for all of it. Yes, Franz probably did have to make some system to bridge it that was developed by trial and error... but any way...

When it comes to language, it's not that a word is a different concept triggering a different impulses, it's the accepted Verbal sound we assonate with things. When you are a baby before you lean to speak, you don't know the Conceptual word your "Self, Mother, Father, Other" but you know that you are you, and so on. We’ve just put words to it, and when we think, we relate that sound to the concept. Words and sounds are just our voice box vibrating a certain way. In other languages, "Self" is something else, but it is still the same concept. Make since?

and as fro a translation software... you run in to problems with some thigns don't translate right and also it's the equevlent to haveing the "Universal Translater" from Star Trek... I don't think so. I think that if you were to say something in one lanuage it would come out... as that, plain and simple.

[Sithking Zero offline]

Lani, Sithking, Chosen One - nice to see fresh faces and ideas round here - thanks!

That was Chosen One's idea.

As for language barriers...

Maybe there's a translation program on the Supercomputer?

I don't really see that working - even with excellent translation software and an extremely powerful computer running it, errors will creep in.

I'm not saying this is a bad idea, but I'll only buy it when I see Yumi say "All your towers XANA are belong to us!"

Actually, I was here before. It was a long time ago, and i submitted an idea as to why the lyoko gang is always virtualized so far away from the tower (my therory: activated towers emit an anti-virtualization field that makes it impossible to be materialized on Lyoko in a certain radius).

And that's a good idea too, chupathingy.

[Cassius335 offline]

Lani, Sithking, Chosen One - nice to see fresh faces and ideas round here - thanks!

That was Chosen One's idea.

As for language barriers...

Maybe there's a translation program on the Supercomputer?

I don't really see that working - even with excellent translation software and an extremely powerful computer running it, errors will creep in.

Yes. That's a given for any system. Hell, you can get 'translation errors' just from two people talking, so a translation program wouldn't be perfect, but the same token wouldn't have to be...

That's what I've been saying... you brain is doing the work.
When you think I want to do this, you don't think how... and most don't even know the exact details of how... you just do.

The brain is sending the same singles... and so I PERNALY think is it acts as the main instructions for all of it. Yes, Franz probably did have to make some system to bridge it that was developed by trial and error... but any way...

Chupa, SPELLCHECK. Geez...

And what exactly are you defining as 'the work'? Yes, your subsconcious runs your body without the conscious having to pay any attention to how... but you seem to be trying to make it sound as if that's the lion's share of the process in running a Lyoko Avatar and that the computer's part (interpreting the signals and moving the Avatar accoprdingly) is just a minor afterthought, which isn't the case. They're both vital; take either out of the equation and the process won't work...

[Chupathingy 42 offline]

Sorry for the spelling... as you can see... I’m hopeless with out spell check

As to what I meant, no, your brain does not do the entire job. It couldn’t, as there is a lot more going on than just moving you around. I say what it does is interprets your thoughts of move, use power/weapon, and to speak in to action and tells the computer what you want to do as it would a physical body. It also takes in data (sensory and such) and gives that to your conscious mind (as well as subconscious). The Processors of the computer does all the hard work, just like in a real pc. Your video card doesn’t do all the video work, only part of the job. Yes it can do a good deal of it it’s self nowadays, but it still need the processor to do many things to. Same goes for just about anything else on a computer. To put it simply, your brain does to the computer what it does for you. It’s not processing where you are on lyoko, what you look like, how strong or the actual actions of your avatar, just directs what it’s suppose to be doing and send your mind data back

Dose that help?

[Cassius335 offline]

Yeah, it does. NOW we're all on the same page and clearly so.