Which couple is better?

[Enki offline]

Erynn and Linii, what is your opinion on Odd/Emily?

[Star Way]

I never even thought of O/E. I suppose it could work, though I don't really like Emily, so whatever.

[Mewberries151]

While I am a massive J/A fan, I wonder how much they would withstand the kind of competition U/Y have. No girls find Jeremy interesting and apart from Ulrich (who's into Yumi) and Odd, no other boy knows that Aelita exists. That's why I made up Martha Chapelle, a girl who likes Jeremy, Odd and Herb (!) and who Jeremy finds interesting (and who Odd finds scary...)

I have this sort of sinking feeling that "William" will be the competition we've been searching for. And he doesn't even have to be Sissi-style competition...just a guy, who takes a liking to Aelita because she's cute and has a sweet demeanor, and whom Jeremie will therefore become jealous of (and likely made much more so by the fact that Aelita remains friendly with him...because she wouldn't recognise that someone's flirting with her...she doesn't know about that yet, and she never thinks the worst of people either). Just a theory I keep wondering about. ^_^

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

Well.. I hope you two are happy. I had to open up a WordPad document just to type all of this because you wrote so much and I couldn't keep hitting the back button to obtain quotes.

First of all, SamBlob, I don't know why I was surprised to see your long response. We were kinda infamous for this on TvTome. I (or you, in some occasions) would post an opinion and then the other would.. strip it down to the last syllable. Can't say I really enjoy it all the time but ehh.. I like debate.

Erynn, just gotta say, you rock yo.

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Ulrich/Yumi:

I keep asking, you keep telling me, and I keep forgetting, but I'll ask again: Why, exactly, should this not work? As I see it, each is the other's bridge over troubled water.

This could errupt into a whole different debate on it's own, so I, at least, would like to keep this kind of brief. Basically, I just don't think that they're good for each other. They are both too similar to work, in my opinion. They are both afraid to show their feelings; both insecure about where each other (and themself) stands in the relationship. So, really, they have just about nothing. There isn't much character development with them. There's just.. them.. in the same place, forever. I don't see how they can help each other if they can't even communicate properly. And, if they did communicate, they are both too similar to really help. If this relationship was IRL and not in TV, it would pretty much be a disaster.

I guess everyone is such a big fan of this because, speaking PURELY from the American pop culture standpoint, Ulrich and Yumi are the most attractive group members... physically and mentally. Ulrich is athletic, has a nice face... and has some emotional problems that make him seem more mature and strong. Chicks dig him. Yumi is Japanese, enough said. It's only logical for most people to pair these two, no matter how well they would go together IRL. Unfortunately, IRL, the most attractive most likely won't work out well together. Tv is different though, I guess. But anyway. Because they're so embarassed of being affectionate to each other (possibly to an unrealistic extent.... though I don't know how things like that work in France) they have a lot to work on if they're going to be together. Someone once said that "love is the absence of fear". Well, I guess it just sucks to be you, Ulrich and Yumi. (Aaaaaaugh long.... hahah)

Absolutely agreed!

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Ulrich/Sissi:

I am sorry, but it has not been my experience to see people outgrow arrogance, egoism and manipulativeness. The opposite is usually the case; they tend to harden into these characteristics. It would take a miracle on the order of Saul's conversion on the road to Damascus for Sissy to "outgrow" that.

If Ulrich and Sissy were ultimately to end up together, I would expect Ulrich to get and use a daisho within a year of the union. The katana would be used on Sissy and the wakizashi on himself.

I didn't say "outgrow". You are right. People do not just "outgrow" these things. What I meant was for her (and Ulrich, as he needs this badly as well) to grow and learn, ultimately becoming better people (or characters, whatever perspective you want). I don't care how awful you say Sissi is (some of it is true, actually), she can still change. So can Ulrich and every other character, every other person. Ulrich/Sissi would take a lot of work. But it is possible and the outcome would be even greater than Ulrich/Yumi getting together, for in an Ulrich/Sissi relationship, there would be character growth--the most amazing thing, IRL as well, IMO.

Well, I don't know about this one. I like the Ulrich and Sissi relationship, but quite frankly I'd rather see it develope into a close friendship rather than an actual lovey-dovey type thing. I think Linii is right, though, about how it would take time (and force more character development, which rocks).

Yupp. Not much else to say to that.

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Ulrich/Emily:

The main reason why your opposition to this is understadable lies in the extent to which Emily and Yumi are similar, so whatever your reason is for not liking U/Y, it would probably extend to U/E as well.

OTOH, the fact that Ulrich has some interest in Emily, and that Odd predicted that Emily would have some interest in Ulrich, is probably meant to reinfroce the idea of U/Y...

Right. Emily just isn't important. Maybe if we saw more of her character, I would have a different opinion. But as of now it's just stupid, because Emily isn't really anybody but a tool for U/Y fluff.

Ehhh.... like Linii said, Emily is just kind of.... a replacement for Yumi, which sucks. Emily should have been established much more before Ulrich's little crisis in Routine, because as it is, she just looks like a convenient character, which makes the show itself look tacky.

Agreed, again. =)

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Jeremie/Aelita:

While I am a massive J/A fan, I wonder how much they would withstand the kind of competition U/Y have. No girls find Jeremy interesting and apart from Ulrich (who's into Yumi) and Odd, no other boy knows that Aelita exists. That's why I made up Martha Chapelle, a girl who likes Jeremy, Odd and Herb (!) and who Jeremy finds interesting (and who Odd finds scary...)

I see. Well, at least we agree on J/A being a good couple.

I love J/A because for one thing, I have a huge, unhealthy crush on Jeremie, plus Aelita is a character I love as well. I love the idea of Jeremie being able to find love in a weird place, like... the computer. And they just seem to fit: Jeremie will do anything for Aelita (because he's 100% smitten) and Aelita relies on him so much (yet she stays strong on her own). I hope that made sense.

Yes, it made sense. And I agree. J/A is indeed very cute.

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Jeremie/Yumi:

This could be beautiful, but only if Aelita were well and truly out of the way. Actually, in my second "grown up" CL idea, Jeremy is wavering between Yumi, who has become a shadowy operative for the Japanese Foreign Office, and the memory of Aelita, who has left him for a NVOC (not very original character) named Philip Vilovitch. Meanwhile, Aelita is thinking of leaving Vilovitch because she wants children and he doesn't... J/A ultimately end up back together and Yumi ends up alone again in the world of black ops.

Yes, agreed. Aelita would have to be with Odd or someone else for J/Y to happen--and be good. (Love the Philip Vilovitch thing, BTW. )

Purely based on the fanfics I've read with J/Y (which there aren't many of *sigh*) I think J/Y can either be extremely good, or extremely awful and very much OOC. I can see Yumi becoming the dominant half of the relationship, which could present either problems or wonderful things.... but quite frankly, problems are more likely. I still support this couple, though. Don't ask me why.

Haha, yahh, I kinda support it too. (Though mainly just cuz I support O/A and U/S, )

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Odd/Samantha:

To put it shortly, he likes her, she doesn't really like him. Uh-huh, that'll work out. *rolls eyes*

Hahaha! Yahh.

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Odd/Aelita:

Actually, Odd/Aelita/Jeremy would be an interesting dilemma for Aelita, but I ultimately prefer J/A to O/A.

To be honest, I think the main reason why most people think of O/A is the number of occasions in which they end up on top of each other and their reactions when it happens. This is probably why there are so many Y/A ideas, too... Ulrich is probably the only one who hasn't ended up on the ground with Aelita (well, Jeremy too, although their meeting in mid-air is rather more significant than any of those...)

To each his own, I suppose. *shrugs*

I agree fully with Linii on this one. ^^

Yay! *hugs* =D

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Odd/Sissi:

This would not make a good relationship at all, but it would make interesting lemon as a single incident... (Forget the morning, they wouldn't even respect each other during the act...)

Agreed about it not making a good relationship. As for the lemon.. blehh.. personally, I wouldn't want to read a lemon about people I didn't think made a good couple. xD

But I disagree with her on this one. I think O/S could work. They seem like the type to hate each other so much that they just fall in love somewhere down the line. Odd is always picking on Sissi, even moreso than Ulrich on some occasions. But that could just mean they're interested in each other.

I suppose it could work but.. ehh.. just nahh. They're both too into their own things and too unappreciative of things that aren't their own things to really function well together. Also, I just don't see them being attracted to each other, physically and personality-wise.

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Sissi/Herb:

OTOH, this reminds me of a quote about Thomas Carlyle and his wife, to the effect that it was good that they married each other and not other people, thereby making two miserable people instead of four...

That's a horrible way to look at things. The main purpose of a relationship is to have two people who help each other grow and become better people. To help each other be happy and the best they can be in life. Sissi/Herb could never in a million years accomplish this and I think it's kind of sad for someone to view relationships in the light your comment suggests (no offense intended, of course).

Meh. IMO, Herb shouldn't be paired with ANYONE.... just because I don't.... ever want to see him... kissing a girl/

Agreed. That's where the "yucky mess emotionally AND physically" part came from.

[SamBlob offline]

Ulrich/Yumi: I guess everyone is such a big fan of this because, speaking PURELY from the American pop culture standpoint, Ulrich and Yumi are the most attractive group members... physically and mentally. Ulrich is athletic, has a nice face... and has some emotional problems that make him seem more mature and strong. Chicks dig him. Yumi is Japanese, enough said. It's only logical for most people to pair these two, no matter how well they would go together IRL. Unfortunately, IRL, the most attractive most likely won't work out well together.

The "attractive couple" idea is EXACTLY the reason why Sissy wants Ulrich! She considers herself the... no, wait, let me quote her: "the star, the diva of the school". Therefore she thinks it is the will of Nature that she be paired with the most handsome and athletic boy at school... regardless of his will.

Yumi, OTOH, is a hard-headed woman, or at least is destined to be one. She is a rock to which Ulrich can anchor himself. Sissy, OTOH, is gossamer, destined to blow away with the wind.

BTW, I have since read L-C's idea that Ulrich and Yumi are too similar and I disagree. Yumi is strong where Ulrich is weak. Ulrich generally lacks self-confidence while Yumi is resolute. As I said in the previous paragraph, she is his rock.

Jeremie/Aelita: I love J/A because for one thing, I have a huge, unhealthy crush on Jeremie, plus Aelita is a character I love as well. I love the idea of Jeremie being able to find love in a weird place, like... the computer. And they just seem to fit: Jeremie will do anything for Aelita (because he's 100% smitten ) and Aelita relies on him so much (yet she stays strong on her own). I hope that made sense.

Aelita worries for Jeremy the way she worries for no-one else, including herself. There are only two occasions where I have seen Aelita really afraid: when she was sliding down the tunnel in "End of Take", and when she was warning Jeremy about the YumiClone in "Image Problem"

In any case, "The Touch" in "Frontier" is the most romantic scene I have ever seen in animation.

Jeremie/Yumi: Purely based on the fanfics I've read with J/Y (which there aren't many of *sigh*) I think J/Y can either be extremely good, or extremely awful and very much OOC. I can see Yumi becoming the dominant half of the relationship, which could present either problems or wonderful things.... but quite frankly, problems are more likely. I still support this couple, though. Don't ask me why.

I must admit, J/Y comes across as being sweet. Especially in the non-canon shipper's dream episode: "The Trap". Yumi's frantic calls for Odd and Jeremy, followed by her hugging Jeremy when they found each other, was... (I hate re-using adjectives... ) too sweet for words.

Odd/Samantha: To put it shortly, he likes her, she doesn't really like him. Uh-huh, that'll work out. *rolls eyes*

Samantha was a one-shot and will not return. This, IMO, is good.

It was refreshing, however, to see a character more over the top than Odd, who made Odd sound like the voice of reason, who the mention of could silence Odd, and who could SHOCK ODD!

Odd/Sissi: But I disagree with her on this one. I think O/S could work. They seem like the type to hate each other so much that they just fall in love somewhere down the line. Odd is always picking on Sissi, even moreso than Ulrich on some occasions.

On most occasions, really...

I think I can understand the U/O yaoi crowd on one point (which I didn't think was possible... ). Odd seems even more irritated about Sissy's advances toward Ulrich than Yumi does. Who knows what lurks in the mind under that purple hair dye? (I can't believe I said that... )

But that could just mean they're interested in each other.

Nah, the most they could have as a relationship is one good, hard shag.

Sissi/Herb: Meh. IMO, Herb shouldn't be paired with ANYONE.... just because I don't.... ever want to see him... kissing a girl.

What, you'd rather see him kissing a boy?

The only time I ever saw any possibility of a S/H relationship was in "Holiday In The Fog" when Sissy was talking to Herb on the 'phone. She doesn't seem to have any other friends (if Herb and Nicholas can be considered friends)

Odd/Emily: No. Theo/Emily, OTOH, would be fitting. Sissy's diversion getting together with Ulrich's diversion... the only thing wrong with that is that I am a Theo/Sissy fan... best of all worlds, really: a good influence on Sissy and a means of getting her OUT of Team Lyoko's hair once and for all...

And suddenly another possibility comes to mind: A/N (Aelita/Nicholas)...

[SamBlob offline]

Well.. I hope you two are happy. I had to open up a WordPad document just to type all of this because you wrote so much and I couldn't keep hitting the back button to obtain quotes.

Don't worry, this one will only reply to three points..

There's just.. them.. in the same place, forever.

Well, if it's a good place, I don't see much wrong with that...

This would not make a good relationship at all, but it would make interesting lemon as a single incident... (Forget the morning, they wouldn't even respect each other during the act...)

Agreed about it not making a good relationship. As for the lemon.. blehh.. personally, I wouldn't want to read a lemon about people I didn't think made a good couple. xD

I was more thinking fanart than fanfic...

Also, I just don't see them being attracted to each other, physically and personality-wise.

Personality-wise I agree, but who knows... (BTW, this is the same point as immediately above, so...)

Sissi/Herb[/b]:

OTOH, this reminds me of a quote about Thomas Carlyle and his wife, to the effect that it was good that they married each other and not other people, thereby making two miserable people instead of four...

That's a horrible way to look at things. The main purpose of a relationship is to have two people who help each other grow and become better people. To help each other be happy and the best they can be in life. Sissi/Herb could never in a million years accomplish this and I think it's kind of sad for someone to view relationships in the light your comment suggests (no offense intended, of course).

Yes, but they're not going to accomplish this with anyone else either, so why not?

Maybe pair up Sissy with Freddy Krueger and Herb with the mother in White Oleander (yes, she was played by Michelle Pfieffer, but she's not a character anyone would want to be around...)

Meh. IMO, Herb shouldn't be paired with ANYONE.... just because I don't.... ever want to see him... kissing a girl/

Agreed. That's where the "yucky mess emotionally AND physically" part came from.

As the silver casket in The Merchant of Venice said: "He who chooseth me shall get so much as he deserves." Herb is the perfect punishment for Sissy.

[Star Way]

The "attractive couple" idea is EXACTLY the reason why Sissy wants Ulrich! She considers herself the... no, wait, let me quote her: "the star, the diva of the school". Therefore she thinks it is the will of Nature that she be paired with the most handsome and athletic boy at school... regardless of his will.

And I don't disagree with that. But she DOES have some genuine feelings in there somewhere. Remember her heartfelt conversation with Jim in Holiday in the Fog? Even though it landed on deaf ears, she certainly expressed a side of her that contradicts your opinion. She may want Ulrich because he's attractive... but she also seems to want him because friendship-wise, he's always excluding her.

Yumi, OTOH, is a hard-headed woman, or at least is destined to be one. She is a rock to which Ulrich can anchor himself. Sissy, OTOH, is gossamer, destined to blow away with the wind.

Yumi may be hard-headed, but that doesn't make her absolutely the only one for Ulrich omfgz. (lol) Sissi may be immature now, and certainly doesn't know how to express her thoughts and feelings in the most productive of manners, but that doesn't mean that she and Ulrich are entirely incompatible.

BTW, I have since read L-C's idea that Ulrich and Yumi are too similar and I disagree. Yumi is strong where Ulrich is weak. Ulrich generally lacks self-confidence while Yumi is resolute. As I said in the previous paragraph, she is his rock.

His rock that's too timid to do anything with him. You gotta admit, in the shyness department, they're pretty much equal. They're self-concious and awkward around each other, but both of them are extremely outgoing aside from that.

Aelita worries for Jeremy the way she worries for no-one else, including herself. There are only two occasions where I have seen Aelita really afraid: when she was sliding down the tunnel in "End of Take", and when she was warning Jeremy about the YumiClone in "Image Problem"

Is this an argument, or just a response? Because I can't see anything there that contradicts what I said.

In any case, "The Touch" in "Frontier" is the most romantic scene I have ever seen in animation.

It was a nice idea, but frankly I think the animators pulled it off horribly... that kinda took away a lot of credibility romance-wise. ^_^;;

Samantha was a one-shot and will not return. This, IMO, is good.

It was refreshing, however, to see a character more over the top than Odd, who made Odd sound like the voice of reason, who the mention of could silence Odd, and who could SHOCK ODD!

I have to agree with you there... it showed a new side of Odd that isn't just about fun and games.

I think I can understand the U/O yaoi crowd on one point (which I didn't think was possible... ). Odd seems even more irritated about Sissy's advances toward Ulrich than Yumi does. Who knows what lurks in the mind under that purple hair dye? (I can't believe I said that... )

Ahh, if we get into the homophobe argument, I'll probably have to end up locking this thread for being horribly off topic. ^^;; So I won't say anything...

Nah, the most they could have as a relationship is one good, hard shag.

Take a cold shower, man....

What, you'd rather see him kissing a boy?

That could be an interesting plot twist. But the answer is most certainly a no... I should re-phrase my original statement: I don't want to see Herb kissing anyone.

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

Well, if it's a good place, I don't see much wrong with that...

That's just the thing though. It's not a good place. Both of them still need a lot of developing that they obviously aren't getting from each other.

I was more thinking fanart than fanfic...

Okeydokey then..

Personality-wise I agree, but who knows... (BTW, this is the same point as immediately above, so...)

Well, I just can't see someone like Sissi going for someone looking as Odd does. Sissi is into trendy and Odd is into.. well.. Odd. So, not only personality-wise but physically as well..

Yes, but they're not going to accomplish this with anyone else either, so why not?

Of course they can accomplish things with others. Love, friendship and the like inspire change. Even for people like Sissi and Herb. Your view is so horribly cynical that it's not even believable..

As the silver casket in The Merchant of Venice said: "He who chooseth me shall get so much as he deserves." Herb is the perfect punishment for Sissy.

Okay, to be very bluntly honest, I find that statement disgusting. Punishment? No. Absolutely not. When people are as Sissi is, they need help. Not a.. punishment. That's.. I can't even describe. What Sissi needs is someone to teach her the right way to be.. not to make her "pay" for human mistakes and insecurities.

[SamBlob offline]

But she DOES have some genuine feelings in there somewhere. Remember her heartfelt conversation with Jim in Holiday in the Fog? Even though it landed on deaf ears, she certainly expressed a side of her that contradicts your opinion. She may want Ulrich because he's attractive... but she also seems to want him because he's so exclusive to her, and she just wants to be his friend... or more.

The only thing I remember her saying about Ulrich in particular was "He came for me! He came here for me! It's like I always dreamed!" What she said earlier to Jim was wanting a feeling of belonging, which I do sympathise with to an extent. But her inability to see beyond her own nose will generally preclude her ever belonging to anything bigger than herself.

Yumi may be hard-headed, but that doesn't make her absolutely the only one for Ulrich omfgz. (lol) Sissi may be immature now, and certainly doesn't know how to express her thoughts and feelings in the most productive of manners, but that doesn't mean that she and Ulrich are entirely incompatible.

Oh, she has no problem revealing her thoughts and feelings to Milly and Tamiya, as she did regarding herself being "irresistable" in "Big Bug". The first question would be, if she's so irresistable to boys in general (as she told Milly and Tamiya), why isn't Odd even remotely smitten? ("Oh, look! It's Miss Conceited in person!") And then there was Ulrich's smackdown, which even Sissy's cronies laughed at...

Even when Ulrich doesn't know who he is, he knows himself well enough to know that Sissy's not his type.

BTW, I have since read L-C's idea that Ulrich and Yumi are too similar and I disagree. Yumi is strong where Ulrich is weak. Ulrich generally lacks self-confidence while Yumi is resolute. As I said in the previous paragraph, she is his rock.

His rock that's too timid to do anything with him. You gotta admit, in the shyness department, they're pretty much equal. They're self-concious and awkward around each other, but both of them are extremely outgoing aside from that.

They're embarrassed. That's more something that can be "got over" than egoism and scheming.

This is where I and most U/Y fans differ: The average U/Y fan sees the most romantic U/Y moment as the near-kiss in "Routine". I see the most romantic U/Y moment as being in "Cruel Dilemma" when Yumi got <i>into</i> the bulldozer to brace Ulrich against the impact. The defining picture in my mind of the Ulrich/Yumi romance is Yumi walking toward the control room with Ulrich across her shoulders.

Aelita worries for Jeremy the way she worries for no-one else, including herself. There are only two occasions where I have seen Aelita really afraid: when she was sliding down the tunnel in "End of Take", and when she was warning Jeremy about the YumiClone in "Image Problem"

Is this an argument, or just a response? Because I can't see anything there that contradicts what I said.

It's just a response. I can't contradict what you said because I agree wholeheartedly.

In any case, "The Touch" in "Frontier" is the most romantic scene I have ever seen in animation.

It was a nice idea, but frankly I think the animators pulled it off horribly... that kinda took away a lot of credibility romance-wise. ^_^;;

??? How so?

What, you'd rather see him kissing a boy?

That could be an interesting plot twist. But the answer is most certainly a no... I should re-phrase my original statement: I don't want to see Herb kissing anyone.

Thank you for the clarification.

[SamBlob offline]

Yes, but they're not going to accomplish this with anyone else either, so why not?

Of course they can accomplish things with others. Love, friendship and the like inspire change. Even for people like Sissi and Herb. Your view is so horribly cynical that it's not even believable..

... and my reply to that is:

Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.

...in which case, thanks for the compliment.

As the silver casket in The Merchant of Venice said: "He who chooseth me shall get so much as he deserves." Herb is the perfect punishment for Sissy.

Okay, to be very bluntly honest, I find that statement disgusting. Punishment? No. Absolutely not. When people are as Sissi is, they need help. Not a.. punishment. That's.. I can't even describe. What Sissi needs is someone to teach her the right way to be.. not to make her "pay" for human mistakes and insecurities.

I agree Sissy needs help, but isn't that what shrinks are for?

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

... and my reply to that is:

Ambrose Bierce wrote:
Cynic, n: a blackguard whose faulty vision sees things as they are, not as they ought to be.


...in which case, thanks for the compliment.

Not to be rude or anything but.. I don't really care what Ambrose Bierce thinks, whoever he is. My comment was not intended as a compliment, though see it any way you wish.

I agree Sissy needs help, but isn't that what shrinks are for?

I don't even know how to reply to this. You're just being horribly disagreeable and narrow-minded. No, that is not what shrinks are for. It's what communication is for, because the only way that she can get better is through positive human interaction.

[4lpha0mega offline]

when you argue do you have to make your posts that long?

[SamBlob offline]

No, that is not what shrinks are for. It's what communication is for, because the only way that she can get better is through positive human interaction.

Well, she's made her own prison, now she's got to lie in it.

[Star Way]

The only thing I remember her saying about Ulrich in particular was "He came for me! He came here for me! It's like I always dreamed!" What she said earlier to Jim was wanting a feeling of belonging, which I do sympathise with to an extent. But her inability to see beyond her own nose will generally preclude her ever belonging to anything bigger than herself.

What she said before to Jim was something along the lines of, "well, the truth is that I've wanted to be a part of their group for a very long time now.." And how is "he came to see me! It's like I always dreamed!!" bad? It may come off as sounding selfish or bratty as usual, but she was just expressing her happiness that he came back to her. She didn't know he went in there to save her's and Jim's butts... as far as she knew, Ulrich started going off on vacation, and then turned around to go back to the school to see Sissi, just as she thought. And the remark at the end, "...just as I always dreamed" only backs up what she said before, about having wanted to be a part of the group for a long time.

She may be immature, as I said before, but that does not mean in ANY sense that her feelings aren't real, or completely warranted, for that matter!

Oh, she has no problem revealing her thoughts and feelings to Milly and Tamiya, as she did regarding herself being "irresistable" in "Big Bug". The first question would be, if she's so irresistable to boys in general (as she told Milly and Tamiya), why isn't Odd even remotely smitten?

I can't argue with that because I don't remember Big Bug well enough.

And then there was Ulrich's smackdown, which even Sissy's cronies laughed at...

Even when Ulrich doesn't know who he is, he knows himself well enough to know that Sissy's not his type.

Ulrich and the gang are *always* smacking down on her. Under the situations, you usually can't really blame them for being rude (but not always... don't forget the drama in "Seeing is Believing")

The insults come when Sissi does/says something stupid, and many times the things she does or says are directed at Ulrich and/or his friends directly... be it a prank or just a scheme to get Ulrich to like her. Those pranks only show that she really does want his friendship (and sometimes the friendship of Yumi, Jeremie, and Odd) but doesn't know quite how to approach them. She feels threatened by how close they are, and because of this, she feels the need to thwart them somehow, just to show that she's still big and tough. If she just tried a nicer approach, she'd probably feel naked in front of them, stripped of her emotional strength. I can certainly see why she'd be afraid of that. But because she wants to be a part of them so much, all she can do is pull stuff that ticks off the gang. (And in turn, they kick her butt with insults.)

Basically, I am NOT denying that Sissi is immature and a little stuck up, but she's not just a little emotionless monster, like you put her out to be.

They're embarrassed. That's more something that can be "got over" than egoism and scheming.

And for an entire season, they've *stayed* embarassed, which just shows that they lack the emotional stability to go anywhere with a romantic relationship. As for the other thing you said, I think I covered it in my last response.

This is where I and most U/Y fans differ: The average U/Y fan sees the most romantic U/Y moment as the near-kiss in "Routine". I see the most romantic U/Y moment as being in "Cruel Dilemma" when Yumi got into the bulldozer to brace Ulrich against the impact. The defining picture in my mind of the Ulrich/Yumi romance is Yumi walking toward the control room with Ulrich across her shoulders.

Agreed... on some level. Those moments show that there is love between them, but not necessarily a romantic kind of love. And they don't make them the OTP of the show, sorry.

??? How so?

It just looked and felt tacky to watch. The little *ding* that happened when their fingers touched.... oh boy.

But that's neither here nor there. It doesn't affect my opinion of J/A.

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

Well, she's made her own prison, now she's got to lie in it.

*sighs*

We always get down to this point, in every debate that we have. I suppose it just comes down to the way you view the world and it's people. I think that there is always room to change and that everyone deserves a chance to change. You can always make good on previous mistakes.

You think.. well, I'm not entirely sure what you think. All I know is that it's unbelievably narrow-minded, unforgiving and irrational..

- - - EDiT - - -

*reads Erynn's post*

Girl, you rock! You are my hero! *high-fives* =D

[4lpha0mega offline]

when you argue do you have to make your posts that long?

2 posts after i say that starway makes a 82-line post, [yes it was 82-lines, including signiture]

[Star Way]

No, that is not what shrinks are for. It's what communication is for, because the only way that she can get better is through positive human interaction.

Well, she's made her own prison, now she's got to lie in it.

She's 13 years old and unable to express herself in a way that doesn't come back and bite her in the butt. That's just in her personality, and hardly warrants the opinion that 'she's so horrible, she deserves blah punishment'.

Lol, thanks Linii.

[Enki offline]

While im a fan of Sissi/Herb, I dont quite agree with SamBlob's comment about Herb being punishment for Sissi. I think that if both Sissi and Herb opened up more and be less bullies than they are, I think that could be a good relationship in par with U/Y and J/A.

[Star Way]

While im a fan of Sissi/Herb, I dont quite agree with SamBlob's comment about Herb being punishment for Sissi. I think that if both Sissi and Herb opened up more and be less bullies than they are, I think that could be a good relationship in par with U/Y and J/A.

And that's where my explaination of why she *can't* do that comes in. But you're right, I think.

[4lpha0mega offline]

*sigh* might as well join in,

i think that is ulrich were a bit nicer to sissi then she, and then maybe herb, would, inturn, be nicer. but the fact her dad is the princapal makes her a bit spoiled in a way

[SamBlob offline]

You think.. well, I'm not entirely sure what you think. All I know is that it's unbelievably narrow-minded, unforgiving and irrational...

Am I really irrational? Hmm... I'll have to think about that... Could you help me out with some examples?

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

Am I really irrational? Hmm... I'll have to think about that... Could you help me out with some examples?

This wasn't really meant to be offensive, so sorry if you took it that way. I was referring to your views in this debate, on Sissi and etc. As Erynn put very nicely, she's only 13 and has a TON of time to improve. She's also nowhere near horrible enough at her current stage to be considered as awful as you consider her. Thus, several of your opinions on her are very irrational.

[4lpha0mega offline]

she's just kinda spiteful, and yearns attention

[Enki offline]

What is your opinion of Odd/Milly?

[Yizzy offline]

.....

In teddygodzilla odd was a bit affectionate but I think its only because he sympathizes with her..and wanted to help since she was upset....But Teddygodzilla isnt the only case...also in just in time(I think)..when he was trapped with her and Tamiya,and was trying to help them out(if not himself 0__o)

I think that Odd/Milly isnt a really good couple..and I dont think i'd work out,Milly needed someone to cling to..and odd needed to be clinged-on.(which simply means that odd really hasnt shown any romantic intrest in her..and I dont think Milly would want odd..she only needs a good friend,which odd would be,greatly.