Which couple is better?

[4lpha0mega offline]

well i wouldnt really say milly is going to get involved much, so i doupt she'll be part of any romances,

[Mewberries151]

This is where I and most U/Y fans differ: The average U/Y fan sees the most romantic U/Y moment as the near-kiss in "Routine". I see the most romantic U/Y moment as being in "Cruel Dilemma" when Yumi got <i>into</i> the bulldozer to brace Ulrich against the impact. The defining picture in my mind of the Ulrich/Yumi romance is Yumi walking toward the control room with Ulrich across her shoulders.

Here here!! That is indeed one of my most favorite moments and one of the reasons why "Cruel Dilemma" rated higher as a favorite episode for me than "Routine".

Interjecting a little here, there's some interesting facts regarding "Routine" and "Cruel Dilemma" that I've derived from reading the original scripts for the episodes (found in French at LyokoCode):

The "savior" scene in "Cruel Dilemma" is virtually the same, although instead of Ulrich snapping out of it a little to run from the bulldozers with Yumi, Yumi instead carries him at that point as well. Also, a few seconds later, she's cornered by one of the bulldozers that has every intent of running her and Ulrich over. The bulldozer luckily manages to get itself stuck between two columns before it can reach them. Yumi then opens up a trap door and lets Ulrich slip down first before allowing herself to jump down (risking getting hit by the bulldozers again) to safety. This scripted version was likely simplified to its present (though no less poignant) state, due to animation budgeting and time. But the fact remains that as seen in what the writers originally intended, Yumi clearly will put Ulrich's safety before her own.

Now for "Routine", here's where things begin to get interesting. Apparently, the writers intended "Routine" to parallel "Cruel Dilemma" a little more than the final version does (as in the whole "Yumi's about to fall into the Digital Void and Ulrich's the only one who can save her" thing). In the version we see, all the monsters have been dispatched, Aelita's safely in the tower, Odd is...somewhere...and Ulrich catches a falling Yumi by the hand before she can fall entirely over the edge of the plateau. This scene is almost entirely different in the scripted version of "Routine". First off, XANA sent a heck of alot more monsters after them in this version. Two MegaTanks remain, as well as a Krabe. The two tanks have encircled Odd, and Aelita is cornered by the Krabe against a rockface near the tower. Yumi has indeed destroyed her Krabe, but its final shot has sent her reeling over the edge of the plateau, where she now dangles at the edge, her one hand slipping very quickly (a la "Cruel Dilemma"). Enter Ulrich, the only one left to prevent anything. His options: He can go help Odd, and save his friend from being over-killed by two Tanks; He can go help Aelita, save her from the Krabe, and get her safely into the tower so she can fix the mess they're all in (hopefully before anyone else becomes toast); or he can save Yumi, who's grip is weakening with every second. Her fate is again in his hands, and a wrong choice could have her fall again into the Digital Void, or have Odd or Aelita both deleted forever. Ulrich's choice? He saves Yumi.

Luckily, Odd cleverly jumps high enough to avoid both of the Tank's blasts and they blow eachother up. Aelita, fortunately, does her favorite "Dodge Roll under the Krabe and hightail it for the tower" move, and also escaoes. But the what if is there, and the consequences would have been severe. But Ulrich chose to save Yumi out of all the others (even his best friend!). One can say whatever they like about his choice; that it was stupid...he should have done this...etc... But the amazing thing is this. The writers had intended to prove that above all others...Ulrich would choose Yumi first.

It's a shame, some of the best scenes have to be simplified and rearranged to fit a time and money constraints, no? ^_^

[SamBlob offline]

Yep, time constraints generally require a lot of cutting. Interesting insights, though...

O/M could work, but only many years from now when the age difference doesn't matter...

Milly... and now we have come upon the real reason why I dislike Sissy. Interactions with Milly are where we see Sissy at her most cruel and Odd at his most noble. Milly may think of Ulrich, but Odd is her real champion whether she appreciates it or not.

[Star Way]

You ignored my big long post. *shakes fist*

Milly... and now we have come upon the real reason why I dislike Sissy. Interactions with Milly are where we see Sissy at her most cruel and Odd at his most noble. Milly may think of Ulrich, but Odd is her real champion whether she appreciates it or not.

Well, this is true to an extent. Sissi is rather mean, but it's always seemed more like she's just trying to prove to herself and everyone else that she's tough, and that she dominates. And this is no new thing, either... Though age discrimination is cruel, it's something everyone goes through, especially in junior high and high school. So really, it wouldn't be fair to say that Sissi is evil because of how she treats those younger than her .... it's mean, but in reality it's not that big of a deal.

[Mewberries151]

Yep, time constraints generally require a lot of cutting. Interesting insights, though....

Thanks!

So really, it wouldn't be fair to say that Sissi is evil because of how she treats those younger than her .... it's mean, but in reality it's not that big of a deal.

Well, I wouldn't say it's not that big of a deal...a person on the receiving end of the bad treatment probably wouldn't agree with that. And continual teasing/taunting/put-downs can give a kid serious low self-esteem which can lead to worse things...but then again it all depends on how the receiving party handles it alot of the time...or how quickly an adult is brought into the picture...

[SamBlob offline]

You ignored my big long post. *shakes fist*

Sorry 'bout that.

The "just as I always dreamed" part is part of her general Ulrich fantasy. The problem with Sissy's Ulrich fantasy is that it completely ignores Ulrich's point of view. She thinks it should be so and therefore it should be so regardless of what Ulrich thinks.

And the truth is plain for us to see (if not for Sissy; it was erased by the RTTP). While Ulrich still thought that Yumi was one of his enemies, he still recognized that Sissy was "not his type". (I am, of course, referring to "Amnesia")

And as for being embarrassed throughout the whole season, I guess that's where "Routine" really makes a difference. They have at least begun to come to terms with it. However, there was one instance before that when Ulrich hed Yumi's hand, and looked directly at her, and did not redden or turn away. This was in "Laughing Fit".

Milly... and now we have come upon the real reason why I dislike Sissy. Interactions with Milly are where we see Sissy at her most cruel and Odd at his most noble. Milly may think of Ulrich, but Odd is her real champion whether she appreciates it or not.

Well, this is true to an extent. Sissi is rather mean, but it's always seemed more like she's just trying to prove to herself and everyone else that she's tough, and that she dominates. And this is no new thing, either... Though age discrimination is cruel, it's something everyone goes through, especially in junior high and high school. So really, it wouldn't be fair to say that Sissi is evil because of how she treats those younger than her .... it's mean, but in reality it's not that big of a deal.

Perhaps...

Sissy's redeemable qualities... hmm... j/k, I have some right at my fingertips:

She was slightly helpful on the hijacked bus in "Log Book" although why Ulrich needed a go-between is beyond me...

She wept for her three least-favourite people (Odd, Milly and Tamiya) when they were in dire straits in "Just In Time".

She set and slung (?) Ulrich's arm in "The Trap"

She kept in touch with the outside and helped calm Milly and Herb in "Claustrophobia"

She helped Ulrich carry Mrs. Hertz in ZGZ...

She was absent in "Cruel Dilemma", "The Girl of the Dreams" and "Rock Bottom"...

[Star Way]

So really, it wouldn't be fair to say that Sissi is evil because of how she treats those younger than her .... it's mean, but in reality it's not that big of a deal.

Well, I wouldn't say it's not that big of a deal...a person on the receiving end of the bad treatment probably wouldn't agree with that. And continual teasing/taunting/put-downs can give a kid serious low self-esteem which can lead to worse things...but then again it all depends on how the receiving party handles it alot of the time...or how quickly an adult is brought into the picture...

That's true, but I'm just saying that in the big scheme of things, kids get taunted for their age all the time. Milly had a right to feel patronized, and Sissi shouldn't have said what she did.. and she wouldn't have if she were more mature. My point is that kids being judged and mistreated by their age isn't anything new... not in any sense of the word. And Sissi, the bully, isn't anything new either. It would be expected behavior from someone like her to be irrationally mean to Milly so that she could maintain a certain feeling of dominance, like I said before.

[Skysong offline]

Ooh, I love it when people ditch the common factors of just what the show did and get really into couples... heheh... *grabs popcorn and sits back to watch fireworks*

[Mewberries151]

So really, it wouldn't be fair to say that Sissi is evil because of how she treats those younger than her .... it's mean, but in reality it's not that big of a deal.

Well, I wouldn't say it's not that big of a deal...a person on the receiving end of the bad treatment probably wouldn't agree with that. And continual teasing/taunting/put-downs can give a kid serious low self-esteem which can lead to worse things...but then again it all depends on how the receiving party handles it alot of the time...or how quickly an adult is brought into the picture...

That's true, but I'm just saying that in the big scheme of things, kids get taunted for their age all the time. Milly had a right to feel patronized, and Sissi shouldn't have said what she did.. and she wouldn't have if she were more mature. My point is that kids being judged and mistreated by their age isn't anything new... not in any sense of the word. And Sissi, the bully, isn't anything new either. It would be expected behavior from someone like her to be irrationally mean to Milly so that she could maintain a certain feeling of dominance, like I said before.

Ah, I see. That makes sense...I recall reading an article in which it said that "bullying has always been a constant"...it unfortunately probably always will be.

[Star Way]

The "just as I always dreamed" part is part of her general Ulrich fantasy. The problem with Sissy's Ulrich fantasy is that it completely ignores Ulrich's point of view. She thinks it should be so and therefore it should be so regardless of what Ulrich thinks.

And the truth is plain for us to see (if not for Sissy; it was erased by the RTTP). While Ulrich still thought that Yumi was one of his enemies, he still recognized that Sissy was "not his type". (I am, of course, referring to "Amnesia")

And that's the beauty of her personality... she loves Ulrich, but she's still an immature girl.

And as for being embarrassed throughout the whole season, I guess that's where "Routine" really makes a difference. They have at least begun to come to terms with it. However, there was one instance before that when Ulrich hed Yumi's hand, and looked directly at her, and did not redden or turn away. This was in "Laughing Fit".

How does that even prove anything? Holding hands is something friends do all the time... And as for the kiss, it was impulsive and brought on by the emotions stirred up by the life-or-death situation they just faced... after a scary thing, they literally tried to kiss and make up. But it doesn't prove they work as a couple, ultimately. It was awkward enough for them to talk about what didn't happen (but almost did) after the fact. What if they actually had kissed? They haven't shown that they're comfortable enough with their feelings to even be able to face each other after something like that. The kiss... had it happened... could have even been responsible for the demise of the Ulrich and Yumi relationship.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe these two are in love... but I think that ultimately it's a friendly kind of love, and that by forcing a romantic relationship on themselves they would only end up hurt. They can't be an honest couple. It just wouldn't work, not now.

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

I agree 100%, Erynn. You rock. =D

[SamBlob offline]

How does that even prove anything? Holding hands is something friends do all the time...

Usually, however, when Ulrich and Yumi find they are doing so, they draw away from each other and go all goofy. I am simply giving an instance where they didn't.

They haven't shown that they're comfortable enough with their feelings to even be able to face each other after something like that.

??? But they did face each other after that... and talk about it; true, they weren't particulary comfortable in talking about it, but they did talk about it. Which, IIRC, is the step forward being looked for at the beginning of the episode.

The kiss... had it happened... could have even been responsible for the demise of the Ulrich and Yumi relationship.

In which case it's a good thing it didn't, neither the one in "Routine" nor the earlier one in "Log Book"...

Now don't get me wrong, I believe these two are in love... but I think that ultimately it's a friendly kind of love, and that by forcing a romantic relationship on themselves they would only end up hurt. They can't be an honest couple. It just wouldn't work, not now.

Perhaps not, but it still has a rather better chance than the proposed alternative...

[Star Way]

Alright... ultimately this conversation comes down to a matter of personal taste, and I think we've both made our points of view pretty clear. Anything we say now will just be us repeating ourselves.

*handshake* Shall we call this one quits? ^^

Didn't mean to step on any toes, btw...

[SamBlob offline]

O.K. by me.

This is basically how all the previous debates ended, but this is probably the first one on LF, so at least we have it as a reference (whereas previous references sank with TVTome...)

We shall see what develops in Season 2 next month (Deo volente...)

[4lpha0mega offline]

see it doesnt take an 82line post to win a debate, just a 5line truce to end it

[Star Way]

see it doesnt take an 82line post to win a debate, just a 5line truce to end it

It wasn't really like that...

[Mewberries151]

see it doesnt take an 82line post to win a debate, just a 5line truce to end it

That makes it sound like there's something wrong with debating. There's nothing wrong with debating so long as it stays a debate and not an out and out arguement. Debates take alot of thought, and alot of time. The person debating has to have strong feelings for their side of the debate; they have to have a good knowledge of both their side and their opponents', and they have to be able to defend their feelings with that knowledge and point out holes in their opponents defense. It takes alot of cleverness and reasoning to become a good debator and it takes alot of heart too. A good clean debate is hard to come by. There's nothing wrong with them at all.

Yes, a five line truce will end a debate quickly, but an 82 line post will show you the dedication of the persons debating. Remember...you may have had to read the 82 lines, but someone had to take the time to think it out and type it. That is dedication.

[SamBlob offline]

Yes, a five line truce will end a debate quickly, but an 82 line post will show you the dedication of the persons debating. Remember...you may have had to read the 82 lines, but someone had to take the time to think it out and type it. That is dedication.

Amen! :whew:

[Saphire-089 offline]

Odd/Emily: No. Theo/Emily, OTOH, would be fitting.

We've never really seen Theo and Emily together in the same scene, so I'm not going to say anything about them until I find out how they act around each other.

[Enki offline]

Here goes my analysis:

Ulrich/Yumi: My kind of relationship. Their feelings are bottled up just waiting to be released. Thank God we at least got an almost kiss and pray to God we get a real kiss in season 2.

Jeremie/Aelita: Theyre made for each other. A sugary sweet relationship. Both have their feelings more out in the air rather than hidden like U/Y. Loved the kiss on the cheek in the season 1 finale and I hope we get to see a kiss on the lips in season 2.

Ulrich/Sissi: CANNOT HAPPEN!!! If it does, ill sue the director for 100 billion dollars (laughs Dr. Evil laugh). I hated the forced kiss Ulrich gave Sissi (you can tell Yumi was not pleased). If Sissi would at least grow up a little emotionally, I might think about it but im too much of an U/Y fan.

Odd/Samantha: All I know is that Odd kissed her in the episode she was in but not many people support this coupling. I guess I dont really support it cause it feels like a one episode stand.

Odd/Sissi: I am hoping and praying to God that this coupling happens. Im such a fan even though it hasnt happened. They are up to now enemies, but as the saying goes, you love the ones you hate.

Theo/Sissi: Not a big fan of Theo and really, Sissi always has to fall for the pretty boy. Not in a million years would I accept this couple.

Theo/Yumi: No way, no how.

Herb/Sissi: As much as I would like this couple to happen, I like the idea of O/S more. Herb should get someone as nerdy as him.

Ulrich/Emily: No way. After my favorite couple U/Y was put to the test with Emily, although it was interesting to watch, I cannot shall not will not support it.

Odd/Emily: If O/S doesnt happen, I can always fall back on this. She reportedly punched Odd in the face so like I said before on the O/S thread as the saying goes.

Jeremie/Taelia: If Taelia pops up again in the future, it will be a huge test for J/A. I would like to see how a meeting between Aelita and Taelia would go. I obviously dont support it but it would be interesting to see what could happen. (pictures Aelita and Taelia in a cat fight *meow*)

Jim/Dorothy: Could happen.

Herb/Milly: Its a long shot but if H/S dont work, we could always fall back on this. I like the sound of this coupling.

Nicholas/Tamiya: Dont really like the sound of this coupling as much as H/M but could happen.

And im spent. I could be on a talk show after an analysis like that.

[GOGOLINIICHAN! offline]

*sighs*

I could respond to a lot of that but.. I don't really want to get into all of this again.

I'm just going to say that I don't know why people bother making pairings with Emily. If she ever obtains any sort of role other than an obstacle for the wonderful Ulrich/Yumi romance, it will be Jim's girlfriend.

[Mewberries151]

I'm just going to say that I don't know why people bother making pairings with Emily. If she ever obtains any sort of role other than an obstacle for the wonderful Ulrich/Yumi romance, it will be Jim's girlfriend.

lol. Emily/Jim...I'm really surprised no one at FF has tried that one (every other pairing has been done, I'd swear. ^^ ). Emily/Jim could almost work in a very very creepy way...it'd be like that one teacher/student romance in the CCS manga...only not as cute, and really really weird.

[Ransomed_Heart offline]

Jeremie/Taelia: If Taelia pops up again in the future, it will be a huge test for J/A. I would like to see how a meeting between Aelita and Taelia would go. I obviously dont support it but it would be interesting to see what could happen. (pictures Aelita and Taelia in a cat fight *meow*)

I have a hard time seeing this pairing. The only reason Jeremie liked Taelia was because he was under the false presumtion that she was Aelita materialized. Besides, she seemed to be under the opinion that Jeremie is somewhat nuts. And if Aeltia met her...I can only imagine her thinking it was neat that a girl looked so much like her ^_^

[MY85 offline]

And if Aeltia met her...I can only imagine her thinking it was neat that a girl looked so much like her ^_^

Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps... quitting the perhaps song, it would be somehow interesting to see Aelita ad Taelia meeting... anyone tried fanfics about them (like meeting, sexfic, CL story, etc.)?

[Little Vili offline]

Well, I wouldn't say it's not that big of a deal...a person on the receiving end of the bad treatment probably wouldn't agree with that. And continual teasing/taunting/put-downs can give a kid serious low self-esteem which can lead to worse things...but then again it all depends on how the receiving party handles it alot of the time...or how quickly an adult is brought into the picture...

And thus, we now know why I have such low self esteem.