LTT3 - Rewriting Physics since 2005!

[Cassius335 offline]

While most of what you've said makes sense, Rhys, it could be argued that the kids do remember what happens in between The Button and The White Light (Yumi and Ulrich certainly seem to remember their almost kiss from one episode). Since the mind is a lot of data, is it possible that the memories from the "moment out of time" are simply grabbed last, as part of the Memory-data-streaming process?

[TB3]

While most of what you've said makes sense, Rhys, it could be argued that the kids do remember what happens in between The Button and The White Light (Yumi and Ulrich certainly seem to remember their almost kiss from one episode). Since the mind is a lot of data, is it possible that the memories from the "moment out of time" are simply grabbed last, as part of the Memory-data-streaming process?

Events occuring inside Lyoko are probably a bit different to what occurs in reality - remember that they are inside the computer and so it can keep sampling their memories until the point where the timeline is erased and the data-link to the past goes dead.

Events outside however most likely rely on a scan of the subject's mind that ocurs instantaneously when Jeremie presses the button.

Btw guys - it's nice to see LTT actively discussing and debating again after all this time - thanks

[JeremyHopper offline]

I remember we talked about this in LTT #1, and I thought the explaination we had was that only the beings under XANA's control get frozen? I'm sorry to say... this could just be some continuity error! If they showed EVERYTHING frozen in time after Jeremy pressed the RTTP button, then little kids watching the show would asking why everything stopped. That's about all I can think of at the moment...

No offence JH but the idea of something controlled by XANA 'freezing' doesn't fly with me personally - I mean how? Mind-controlled rats won't suddenly hover in mid-air if you cut off the thing controlling them, nor will a highly destructive beam of charged particles (which weren't even under XANA's control technically, only the thing firing them).

I know I know, I was just saying that that's what I thought I remember reading was our first hypothesis. My hypothesis is that it has no explaination and is merely the director deciding it would be cooler if the humans don't freeze in motion.

Maybe in reality the people would freeze in motion, but for that brief period of time their mind is still active and percieves everything in frozen motion, like in the Matrix, and in reality they are also frozen and are not moving but in their mind they would be if they weren't frozen so it's from their persective and they percieve that they are. What do you want? I'm trying to add to discussion!!

[Ghost Guest offline]

I guess it's worth mentionng that the "freeze effect" was only seen in season 1, as far as I can remember. Though in A bad Turn the materialized Krabe kind of froze, it did after Aelita deactivated the tower and before Jeremie triggered the RTTP.

[Cassius335 offline]

Events outside however most likely rely on a scan of the subject's mind that ocurs instantaneously when Jeremie presses the button.

That's assuming the memory can be grabbed in an instant, though. I suspect it's more like a continuous download which streams the memories from the persons brain to the supercomputer and from there to the supercomputer in the past and then to the brain in the past.

I guess it's worth mentionng that the "freeze effect" was only seen in season 1, as far as I can remember. Though in A bad Turn the materialized Krabe kind of froze, it did after Aelita deactivated the tower and before Jeremie triggered the RTTP.

In Season 1, the RTTP effect seemed to be at least partly on automatic, at least the early stages of the process kicking in the moment the tower was deactivated and causing the freeze. Given that the process continued without Jeremie on a couple of occasions, presumeably there's a brief window for the Console Operator to input the remaining data (the Time to go back to, for one), after which the system just continues on default settings.

[mooshie offline]

I agree with TB3 on this one that the bubble is merely aa metaphorical representation and it is from the kid's perspectives. However this is with that added wrinkle that, yes they are creating a new timeline. However, even though this happens all the time (several billion times a nanosecond), these are special. This being because they go backwards. A simple representation, which removes all timelines but those being discussed, is as follows,

______________________________________________
/
/
/
--------------------------------
notice that the timeline goes on even after the perspective of the show moves to the new one the only problem is that pushing the new timeline back would require a massive amount of energy and/or exotic matter however this is greatly simplified when we apply ZPE giving us all the energy needed to manipulate the space/time continuum. Another theory that doesn't resort to the "cure-all" that is ZPE, is that the future of the "original"(continuity is difficult when discussing time) timeline is destroyed to create enough energy to move the timeline that splits off "backwards" (using the analogy most familiar for the english speakers, whereas chinese refer to it as above, and certain native americans as behind, but now I'm off on a tangent[no disrespect intended])which looks something like this.


_________________________
/
/
/
------------------------------------------

In conclusion this has been a long winded, unnescesary theory with mooshie feel free to regard or disregard this post as you should so choose

[Jazzy Josh offline]

How does the supercomputer receive the temporal coordinates? My theory is that the SC records a coordinate any time a mass amount of data is processed, or recorded manually. If so, Jeremie could easily choose the most recent entry.

I've been away for SO long!

[Cassius335 offline]

How does the supercomputer receive the temporal coordinates? My theory is that the SC records a coordinate any time a mass amount of data is processed, or recorded manually. If so, Jeremie could easily choose the most recent entry.

Sort of like a System Restore point?

[Jazzy Josh offline]

Yes, I believe it world work kind of like a System Restore point

[Tangent128 offline]

Well, the sneak peak was more tantalizing than fufilling, but there's still a little to spark discussion.

So, we've seen that Carthage can be seen from the desert sector, at least. It would make sense for it to be visible from the other sectors as well. How does that explain the differing skies, though? I'm guessing that the sectors exist in parallel, with Carthage existing in all of them. Could any other openings be seen on the outer wall?

Also, did anybody see something resembling a ray gun as Carthage was re-created?

[Andy Waltfeld offline]

Ray gun? More like particle accelerator. Expect it to be used for Internet access as Season 4 develops. How the "ships" and/or vehicles will be transmitted is up for speculation, though.

[Cassius335 offline]

Well, the sneak peak was more tantalizing than fufilling, but there's still a little to spark discussion.

So, we've seen that Carthage can be seen from the desert sector, at least. It would make sense for it to be visible from the other sectors as well. How does that explain the differing skies, though? I'm guessing that the sectors exist in parallel, with Carthage existing in all of them. Could any other openings be seen on the outer wall?

*blink* I missed something. When was Carthage visible from the Desert sector? One of the Replika's, maybe?

I did like the rather Orangey Digital Sea. Are we witnessing the beginning of Lyoko G/S, complete with Day/Night settings?

[Tangent128 offline]

...

*blink* I missed something. When was Carthage visible from the Desert sector? One of the Replika's, maybe?

I'm assuming that the mid-air battle was in the Desert Sector from the sky and sea colors, though I guess without any desert (or other land) to speak of, the former name may not apply as much...

I did like the rather Orangey Digital Sea. Are we witnessing the beginning of Lyoko G/S, complete with Day/Night settings?

No, just Lyoko Ruby/Sapphire. Sure, it tracks the time, but all it uses it for is tides. They would have tracked berry growth too, but Odd already ate them all without replanting...

[Cassius335 offline]

That, and you don't get many Berry trees in the middle of an ocean.

Anyway...

[nap* offline]

According to the discusions here the RTTP trip returns everyones current mind state and returns them to their rightful owner with the memories wipe of current events or something like that. However there has also been a discussion that the super computer RTTP works like a system restore point.

System restore points reverts the computer back to settings from an earlier date, and keeps documents & files safe. But the mind is more complex then a simple word document, so I would assume that the RTTP would treat each mind like a setting. If this is true why would it be impossible for a person to be resurectted due to a XANA attack?

Another thing that has been bugging me... (This is based on the balance of the universe.If you've seen Tru Calling you would know what i'm talking about.)

If someone was meant to die because of a XANA attack, but Jeremey cause a RTTP trip meaning that the person was saved, doesn't that mean that the universe is out of balance? If someone is meant to die but doesn't, someone else has to take their place. Like in "log book" the whole town was going to get destroyed but the gang save the day with a RTTP trip after deactivating the tower.

I know there are counters to this theory such as, "maybe the were not meant to die", but say if the Odd was supposed to meet Samantha but had to go to Lyoko and Samantha got hit by a car (this isn't XANA related). Say she was in her final moments before death, thus going to die, and a RTTP was activated because the school was badly affected, the trip would bring Samantha back with no memories of any events that happened to her. If Odd met up with her which prevented her dying this would cause the unbalance.

[Chosen_one offline]

According to the discusions here the RTTP trip returns everyones current mind state and returns them to their rightful owner with the memories wipe of current events or something like that. However there has also been a discussion that the super computer RTTP works like a system restore point.

System restore points reverts the computer back to settings from an earlier date, and keeps documents & files safe. But the mind is more complex then a simple word document, so I would assume that the RTTP would treat each mind like a setting. If this is true why would it be impossible for a person to be resurectted due to a XANA attack?

Another thing that has been bugging me... (This is based on the balance of the universe.If you've seen Tru Calling you would know what i'm talking about.)

If someone was meant to die because of a XANA attack, but Jeremey cause a RTTP trip meaning that the person was saved, doesn't that mean that the universe is out of balance? If someone is meant to die but doesn't, someone else has to take their place. Like in "log book" the whole town was going to get destroyed but the gang save the day with a RTTP trip after deactivating the tower.

I know there are counters to this theory such as, "maybe the were not meant to die", but say if the Odd was supposed to meet Samantha but had to go to Lyoko and Samantha got hit by a car (this isn't XANA related). Say she was in her final moments before death, thus going to die, and a RTTP was activated because the school was badly affected, the trip would bring Samantha back with no memories of any events that happened to her. If Odd met up with her which prevented her dying this would cause the unbalance.

You've got a good point, there. I mean, what if someone dies and then they return to the past?

[Cassius335 offline]

Here we go again....

[Tangent128 offline]

There have been so many pages on this... I think the "official" explanation right now is some quantum interference technobabble- if you die in any timeline, it carries over to all the others.

Though for simplicity's sake, I'm more inclined to think Jeremie is just being superstitious when he says a RTTP can't undie somebody.

"The balance of the universe" is a non-issue. The universe loves being complicated.

[Cassius335 offline]

Actually, I doubt that they would make such a claim unless someone had actually died on them.

I've never believed quanum interference is enough for a certain kill (too much like using technobabble to fill a logic-hole), but I'm certain that deaths have occured... they know people can die despite a RTTP because they've seen it happen.

[Tangent128 offline]

You think they would mention that death occassionally, though. Or at least behave a lot more angst-y.

[Cassius335 offline]

Why? Frankly, if they were letting it get to them that much, the series would be very depressing.

[Tangent128 offline]

True, but simply ignoring such an event is rather unbelievable behavior. Besides, it seems like somebody dying would have convinced them to just shut off the SC, ending the show sometime between XANA Awakens and Teddy-Godzilla.
Also, while CL is full of bummers and defeats, an actual death just doesn't seem to fit the show.

[Cassius335 offline]

"We all agreed to turn the Super-Computer back on together"

Oh and if death wouldn't fit the show, why should the characters be angsty about a previous death?

[Tangent128 offline]

"We all agreed to turn the Super-Computer back on together"

That would explain the Franz Hopper - XANA Awakens seeming contradiction...

Oh and if death wouldn't fit the show, why should the characters be angsty about a previous death?

Since otherwise just doesn't seem like believable behavior to me...

[Cassius335 offline]

Oh and if death wouldn't fit the show, why should the characters be angsty about a previous death?

Since otherwise just doesn't seem like believable behavior to me...

We're not all Rodri, ya know. Some people, even after a tragedy, ARE capable of moving on and getting on with our lives. I doubt the kids have forgotten, but it's not something we need beating into our heads week in, week out. Unless Moonscoop actually plan to kill someone, it's redundant info.