Perfection... do we give a serious vote to an episode?

[MY85 offline]

Why is it that almost a good amount of people give almost all Code Lyoko episodes the 10/10 rank?

I mean, the quaility differs in every episode. You may get a really good episode, you may get a decent episode, you may get a regular episode, you may get a poorly done episode... but you never get a entire perfect season!

It cringes me to see that a good amount of people vote for the episodes as perfect. Barely any episode is perfectly done.

I guess it's that people vote right after they watch the episode. So they're like ultra happy as hell and they go ultra hyper and vote for the top score. I've also been a victim of that at times, but mostly due to the lack of options avaiable to vote on. For example, TB3's poll scale on "William Returns" is in my opinion a somewhat poor scale. To me, the recent S4 episode was among the rank of 6-7/10. So I went for the 6 option, when maybe I could have given it a seven vote.

I think we should all give honest votes in every episode rather than just be a silly being that thinks that their most favourite thing is really perfect when just about everything that exists in this world has its flaws.

I hope people understand me with this thread.

[Tekirai offline]

This is something I've thought about at one point- I think when people vote 10/10, they do because they like so much that it's 'perfect'. Not that they think it really is perfection, moreso they think it's so great it deserves the highest mark.

I ended up voting 4/10 on the poll for WR (yes, that lonely person is me kthxbai) when I wanted to vote 5. But I didn't want to vote 6, so I went to 4. I tend to give my all-time favourite works 10/10 to show my favouritism for it. I'm sure other people do the same. (I usually do a 9.something on stuff like that, but y'know?)

People can choose to be proffesional in their ratings or not. It's their choice if they want it to be accurate and not biased with opinion. Pretty hard to do for some people on the internet, though.

[TB3]

Freedom of opinion - if someone thinks something is perfect or near-to-perfect, they're more than welcome to say so

[. offline]

Freedom of opinion - if someone thinks something is perfect or near-to-perfect, they're more than welcome to say so

Just because it's your opinion or belief or dream doesn't make it noble or right or nothing. Hitler had one. So did Stallin. Eric Harris too.

I agree with Rodri, some people are WAY to laxed with what they think is good storytelling. *shrugs* but what can you do, eh?

[Mewberries151]

Freedom of opinion - if someone thinks something is perfect or near-to-perfect, they're more than welcome to say so

Just because it's your opinion or belief or dream doesn't make it noble or right or nothing. Hitler had one. So did Stallin. Eric Harris too.

I agree with Rodri, some people are WAY to laxed with what they think is good storytelling. *shrugs* but what can you do, eh?

That's not what he's saying. "Freedom of opinion" means you're allowed to have whatever opinion you like and not be discriminated or harassed for it (take for example, non-canon couples, episodes, characters, etc. ). It does not mean that you are free to force your opinion upon other people or harass them for not agreeing with yours, as that violates their own right to "freedom of opinion". See? ^^;

At any rate, TB3 has the right idea. If someone thinks an episode is perfect, than let them. The polls here don't mean anything anyway, other than give a small consensus on what episodes were well-liked and others...not so much. ; It's not like these polls are going to decide who the next president of the world is or something. ^^ I don't see a reason to make a huge deal out of them in that respect.

Vote based on quality (whether plot or art-wise), or vote based on how much you liked it overall. We're really not going to judge you for it. *nods*

[UltimaHedgie offline]

I generally try to vote based on quality. I found "William Returns" to be quite an excellent episode, in my own personal opinion. Yes, I do agree with what you have to say, though. Voting 10/10 all the time is plain stupid, unless it really DESERVES that score. While I found William Returns to be quite excellent, no way does it deserve a ten. My score is more of a nine, but if nine didn't exist (in which case it was actually missing), it is closer to eight than it is to ten.

[Tangent128 offline]

As there is no absolute scale to judge episodes by, you can't really call any rating "wrong". If somebody thinks that every single episode is a masterpiece of television, they can vote that way, though that tends to lower the significance of their votes.

I think we should all give honest votes in every episode rather than just be a silly being that thinks that their most favourite thing is really perfect when just about everything that exists in this world has its flaws.

But then, if everything has flaws, nothing should get a perfect score. As there is no point to having an impossible value on the scale, what does a 10 mean?

[Cassius335 offline]

Ok, something is SERIOUSLY wrong with the world when I agree with Rodri.

If I'm reading this right, he's not questioning anyones right of choice, just their objectivity. Just as some people are letting tiny incedental things get in their way of enjoyment of the episode, so there are others who may be letting themselves worship the episodes in blind faith. Which doesn't exactly make for accurate data...

But then again, this is fandom, after all. Such things are normal.

[AmericanLyokoTeam offline]

I've always tried to take a step back from episodes and vote more objectively. However I'm just not the "10/10 BEST EVAR" fanboy type, whereas some just are. I don't like seeing blind worship or hate really, and I'm glad it was brought up that maybe the auto 10 of 10ing was being overdone. However, I don't think the ones who are 10 of 10ing will give it a second though, to them the episode was perfect just by nature of being in their favorite work of fiction.

Those votes rarely wind up being a good measure for the episode until later, maybe there should be a second vote topic after everybody has had a couple of weeks to really step back and say 'how much of this episode do I still remember, how much of it stood out and remained loveable after a bit of time filtered it?'

'Course you can always just read the comments which are frequently filled with some good analysis, the good and bad of the plot, art, and humor. Detail observation, that kind of thing. Oddly enough even the 10 of 10ers will find some points they didn't like

[FènéethxAelita offline]

I agree that perfection is hard to come by, though I believe that "Code: Earth", "False start", "A New Order", "St. Valantine's Day", "Xana's Kiss", "The Key", and "Final Round" are personally the best overall episodes. +
"William Returns" had quite a bit of hype, so I expected it to be the best episode yet. It was a 9.7 to me (no JxA or UxY), but everything else was perfect, except the character models weren't updated (I mean adding effects like Aelita's hair shine ).

[.asphyxiate.me. offline]

I agree with TB3 on freedom of opinion.

I mean, yeah, a lot of the episodes are amazing, but every episode has its flaws. Sometimes it's graphics, or dialouge, or the plotline; not every single one is 10/10 (to me at least, however there are certain episodes that i count as an exception =] ).

But it does depend on the person's pereference and opinion, so if they think that it's perfect, then so be it.

[MY85 offline]

At any rate, TB3 has the right idea. If someone thinks an episode is perfect, than let them. The polls here don't mean anything anyway, other than give a small consensus on what episodes were well-liked and others...not so much. ; It's not like these polls are going to decide who the next president of the world is or something. ^^ I don't see a reason to make a huge deal out of them in that respect.

At any rate, Tekirai, Piper, Cassius335 and AmericanLyokoTeam are the ones that perfectly understood my message. But Mew, someone voices their opinion that the Code Lyoko actors suck. What do you do? At any rate, you raise hell just enough to make their opinions sound like a sin. Or when someone criticizes CL harshly on some aspects, no one allows such opinion here since it's a CL forum and then such member gets trashed around here. Freedom of opinion, my *ss.

You say that the polls don't mean nothing? Let's say some random person browses LF and he sees that a bunch of people vote 10/10. By his impression and only looking at the poll, the impression is that the people in the forum are dead serious about the episode being a "perfect" episode... when in reality, a lot of these people go apes**t and worship the episode in blind faith thinking that it's all good. So basically, maybe Moonscoop one day gives us a really crappy episode, yet these same people will still worship blindly the episode and it a good rate in biased fashion while myself and others acknowledge that it wasn't a good episode. Think about it.


If anything, I'm not forcing everyone to be strictly correct to vote for episode. But I'm trying to view them a new view on voting and to think rationally when it comes to give an episode a vote.

But in the end, there's fandom, which pretty much sends to hell what I'm saying. *sigh*

[. offline]

At any rate, TB3 has the right idea. If someone thinks an episode is perfect, than let them. The polls here don't mean anything anyway, other than give a small consensus on what episodes were well-liked and others...not so much. ; It's not like these polls are going to decide who the next president of the world is or something. ^^ I don't see a reason to make a huge deal out of them in that respect.

At any rate, Tekirai, Piper, Cassius335 and AmericanLyokoTeam are the ones that perfectly understood my message. But Mew, someone voices their opinion that the Code Lyoko actors suck. What do you do? At any rate, you raise hell just enough to make their opinions sound like a sin. Or when someone criticizes CL harshly on some aspects, no one allows such opinion here since it's a CL forum and then such member gets trashed around here. Freedom of opinion, my *ss.

true, every word of it.

[MY85 offline]

It would be much easier for me to explain this issue if Code Lyoko was a wrestling show... since I'm not a mark or sheep.

We got a bunch of CL marks here. No surprise. Like saying Odd is their John Cena and William is their Edge. I'm aware that I'm insulting Adam Copeland by comparing him to William and if John Cena wasn't as stale as he is today (I loved Dr. Of Thuganomics 2003), comparing him to Odd would be an insult. Nowadays, comparing Odd to Cena is an insult to Geczy.



Only Piper and a few wrestling fans will understand me. If there's anyone who can understand this. Oh, well...

[Mewberries151]

At any rate, TB3 has the right idea. If someone thinks an episode is perfect, than let them. The polls here don't mean anything anyway, other than give a small consensus on what episodes were well-liked and others...not so much. ; It's not like these polls are going to decide who the next president of the world is or something. ^^ I don't see a reason to make a huge deal out of them in that respect.

At any rate, Tekirai, Piper, Cassius335 and AmericanLyokoTeam are the ones that perfectly understood my message. But Mew, someone voices their opinion that the Code Lyoko actors suck. What do you do? At any rate, you raise hell just enough to make their opinions sound like a sin. Or when someone criticizes CL harshly on some aspects, no one allows such opinion here since it's a CL forum and then such member gets trashed around here. Freedom of opinion, my *ss.

First off, mind the language, Rodri. You know the rules.

Second off, I believe I can sum this up in one phrase *feel free to tack on a "300" style shout to it* "This is a Code Lyoko Fan Forum!"

Honestly, you're welcome to feel whatever you like about Code Lyoko, but if you're not a fan...what's the point of staying here? We have rules about hate and flame posting, so kindly don't start a debate with me on that, because the rules have been there since Day 1 and they're there for everyone to see. If you don't like Code Lyoko, and you don't like people telling you "you're being a pill" when you flame it because there's rules in place that prohibit that, there's no point in staying.

As for the VAs, they're our special guests. They take time out of their busy busy lives and schedules to post here and throw us a bone every so often about what's going on in their lives and with CL. Anyone who attacks them here is looking for a fight and that's all there is to it. Again, this place is a "Code Lyoko Fan Forum".

What's more, attacking the VAs on a forum that's supposed to be a safe haven for them is just low. What's more, they're now Mods here, and I'd expect that they be treated with the same respect that any other Mod here would be treated with.

Also, you're being a hypocrite and you know it. You used to defend the VAs as much as the next person not too long ago, and there's the forum history to prove it. Not to mention you used to defend me. So kindly don't go there with me.

You say that the polls don't mean nothing? Let's say some random person browses LF and he sees that a bunch of people vote 10/10. By his impression and only looking at the poll, the impression is that the people in the forum are dead serious about the episode being a "perfect" episode... when in reality, a lot of these people go apes**t and worship the episode in blind faith thinking that it's all good. So basically, maybe Moonscoop one day gives us a really crappy episode, yet these same people will still worship blindly the episode and it a good rate in biased fashion while myself and others acknowledge that it wasn't a good episode. Think about it.

I still don't see what the "big deal" is. So what if a bad episode gets a good rating? The world's not going to explode just because someone gave "Tidal Wave" a 10. Maybe they thought it deserved it. I'm not going to force someone to give it a 3, just because you or someone else felt it was a crummy episode.

What's more, this isn't a review site. It's a fan forum for Code Lyoko. Nobody goes to a "fan forum" looking for a critical honest review. That's just not using common sense, because of course the favor and grades are going to be skewed in the episodes favor. If a person is looking for "serious critical review" of Code Lyoko and its episodes, they should go to IMDB or TV.com (with it's larger and more diverse membership) or some other site like that.

I certainly wouldn't go to a library and ask the people their if they like to read. I also wouldn't go to an anime convention wearing an "I Hate Anime" t-shirt, and then complain when I get a whole bunch of angry looks.

Think about it.

If anything, I'm not forcing everyone to be strictly correct to vote for episode. But I'm trying to view them a new view on voting and to think rationally when it comes to give an episode a vote.

But in the end, there's fandom, which pretty much sends to hell what I'm saying. *sigh*

Yes. There's fandom...which is perfectly normal in a "fan forum". You still don't seem to get that LF first and foremost is a Code Lyoko fansite. Yes, you can make good friends here and fool around and be silly, or whatever. But it's still a Code Lyoko fansite.

It's as simple as that.

[Cassius335 offline]

Mew, if all the show gets is 10/10 ratings just because, how the hell are Moonscoop or anyone else supposed to be able to tell the good episodes from the not so good ones? If it's not an accurate poll, it's worthless because it's not doing the job it was designed for and there might as well not have been one.

Yes, the VA's (and anyone from Moonscoop lurking) are our guests, but there's no need to baby them. they can handle constructive criticism. And taking any such crit on board, they can use it to try and make the show better (whether that works or not is a whole other problem). Too much blind faith can just as damaging as any flame, because it tells Moonscoop nothing about any mistakes they might be making.

And just because we're a fan site means we don't have to give critical honest reviews? That's bull. We're the ones who, thanks to Rhys, Moonscoop are paying attention to. Not TV.Com. US. And we owe it to them, as fans, to give them a balanced viewpoint.

A fan knows when a show is good. A real fan knows when a show is bad (or not quite up to par) and loves it anyway, despite any flaws. And maybe if word of mouth gets back to the creators, those flaws maybe won't come up again. Result: A truly awesome show, with a few shaky bits along the way.

Remember: There is no such thing as perfection.

[MY85 offline]

Cassius335... great post.

First off, mind the language, Rodri. You know the rules.

So much for freedom of opinion, eh?

Honestly, you're welcome to feel whatever you like about Code Lyoko, but if you're not a fan...what's the point of staying here?

Why am I still here? I'm a fan, if anything. Threads like this prove how I am still interested in this show.

As for the VAs, they're our special guests. They take time out of their busy busy lives and schedules to post here and throw us a bone every so often about what's going on in their lives and with CL. Anyone who attacks them here is looking for a fight and that's all there is to it.

Take time and post, eh? Come on, you and I are perfectly aware that they don't post here anymore.

Jodi Forrest - October 28th, 2006
Matthew Geczy - October 27th, 2006
Barbara Weber-Scaff - March 21th, 2007
Mirabelle Kirkland - November 15th, 2005
David Gasman - April 7th, 2007
Sharon Mann - February 18th, 2007

Half of them have been inactive for a good amount of time. Why?
*They may have lost their passwords. Seems feasible.
*They are busy with their jobs. Seems feasible.
*They got sick of getting a bunch of PMs by fans that don't understand them at all. It's not far off from reality. Remember Matthew and Taelia?
*They don't care about this forum anymore. It could be possible. After all, jobs aside, they have lives enough to not be wasting it on the Internet.

What's more, attacking the VAs on a forum that's supposed to be a safe haven for them is just low. What's more, they're now Mods here, and I'd expect that they be treated with the same respect that any other Mod here would be treated with.

As Cassius335 said before, they're experienced enough to handle criticism. There's barely any criticism as it always seemed that most members suck up to them.

You used to defend the VAs as much as the next person not too long ago, and there's the forum history to prove it. Not to mention you used to defend me. So kindly don't go there with me.

True, I would defend them if it was necesary. I still remember our "history".

What's more, this isn't a review site. It's a fan forum for Code Lyoko. Nobody goes to a "fan forum" looking for a critical honest review. That's just not using common sense, because of course the favor and grades are going to be skewed in the episodes favor. If a person is looking for "serious critical review" of Code Lyoko and its episodes, they should go to IMDB or TV.com (with it's larger and more diverse membership) or some other site like that.

I remember that Lyoko Freak back then used to be more than just a "fan forum" as you seem to enjoy it that way more. The Code Lyoko TvTome section was also a place for CL fans to hang around and debate. It was also a place where I could find the best reviews about the show from people like SamBlob and yourself included, among others. SamBlob is my best example of a member that isn't always getting along well with the fans, but he could put up heated debates with many other members for whatever reason, but I appreciate that. Lyoko Freak also had serious reviews from not only Blob, but animenologist, VChat 2.0 and others that could type properly enough that were willing to debate about Code Lyoko in a way that it wouldn't look that blind at all.
And it's funny how you tell me to go to IMDB and TV.com to find serious reviews because those are sites you and others here quoted as sites full of inmature members and crappy reviews, if anything.

[. offline]

Bassically your allowed to have an opinion so long as your not saying anything negative about the show *rolls eyes*

So lemme get this straight Mew, I can't be a fan of Code Lyoko and be annoyed at the direction the show is heading? Then by all means that would mean I wasn't a true fan at all. And that also means I'm not much of a wrestling fan either. Because I *DO* complain when something I like starts to do things I don't like.

And the voice actors are like fully grown adults with jobs and lives. If their actually giving a care about what some schmuck on LyokoFreak thinks about them then they seriously need a reality check... however that pretty much applies to anyone on any message board.

[Carth]

Here's all I'm gonna say.

If you think an episode is bad, say it's bad. If you think an episode is good, say it's good. Don't force others to think against their own opinion simply because it's your opinion (whether that opinion be good or bad), and don't make such a big deal of it.

If Mew thinks all the episodes are great, fine. If Rodri thinks none of them are, fine. People are different. Big whoop.

*slinks away*

Ha ha, I've gotten so apathetic lately...
And if you want my opinion on CL eps...it varies with the plot, presentation, cuteness/fanservice...

[. offline]

Here's all I'm gonna say.

If you think an episode is bad, say it's bad. If you think an episode is good, say it's good. Don't force others to think against their own opinion simply because it's your opinion (whether that opinion be good or bad), and don't make such a big deal of it.

If Mew thinks all the episodes are great, fine. If Rodri thinks none of them are, fine. People are different. Big whoop.

*slinks away*

Ha ha, I've gotten so apathetic lately...
And if you want my opinion on CL eps...it varies with the plot, presentation, cuteness/fanservice...

Non. Rodri is saying people need to judge the episodes harder not that they suck. He's saying that people are just to quick to give an ep a 10 rating just because "OMG! NEW CODESZZZZ!!!!11111!!!!"

[Carth]

Here's all I'm gonna say.

If you think an episode is bad, say it's bad. If you think an episode is good, say it's good. Don't force others to think against their own opinion simply because it's your opinion (whether that opinion be good or bad), and don't make such a big deal of it.

If Mew thinks all the episodes are great, fine. If Rodri thinks none of them are, fine. People are different. Big whoop.

*slinks away*

Ha ha, I've gotten so apathetic lately...
And if you want my opinion on CL eps...it varies with the plot, presentation, cuteness/fanservice...

Non. Rodri is saying people need to judge the episodes harder not that they suck. He's saying that people are just to quick to give an ep a 10 rating just because "OMG! NEW CODESZZZZ!!!!11111!!!!"

Aaaaah. *nod nod*

[Mewberries151]

Oi, this might take a while to post out. I find it terribly ironic how you guys are asking for "Freedom of Opinion" and yet are automatically assuming that anyone who gives an episode a "10" isn't thinking about the episode critically.

My original opinion was, and still is, if they want to give it a 10, then let them. They're fully allowed to do so, because of "Freedom of Opinion", as TB3 said. If you want to give an episode a 1, then by all means, go ahead. That's what the polls are there for.

Anyway, to the quotes:

Mew, if all the show gets is 10/10 ratings just because, how the hell are Moonscoop or anyone else supposed to be able to tell the good episodes from the not so good ones? If it's not an accurate poll, it's worthless because it's not doing the job it was designed for and there might as well not have been one.

The poll options in of themselves don't often express an accurate view of why something was given a 10, or a 7, or what have you. Just look at "Teddygozilla's" poll if you don't know what I mean. What are they supposed to gain from a poll with options like that? It barely even has anything to do with the episode at all!

In that respect, maybe the polls are useless and shouldn't be used for anything other than "fun". I have always felt that if a company were seriously looking for constructive criticism about an episode or a show then they would look at what the people were actually "saying" about it. They could just as easily read the comments if they're looking at our episode threads, instead of the polls (which like I said, aren't always helpful anyway). The comments are where the real critique and serious thought is going to be.

Yes, the VA's (and anyone from Moonscoop lurking) are our guests, but there's no need to baby them. they can handle constructive criticism. And taking any such crit on board, they can use it to try and make the show better (whether that works or not is a whole other problem). Too much blind faith can just as damaging as any flame, because it tells Moonscoop nothing about any mistakes they might be making.

The VA Boards are for Q&A sessions with the VAs. That's not the place to critique there performances and tell them how badly or how well they did their job.

If anything, that should be put in the discussion of the episodes, which as I said before, is where I would look, if I were a company or actor looking for constructive criticism. I would not look at a poll.

What's more, the VAs have said before that they really don't come online to be criticized. They come for fun, and to answer our questions, which is really nice of them because we'd probably never get answers otherwise.

And just because we're a fan site means we don't have to give critical honest reviews? That's bull. We're the ones who, thanks to Rhys, Moonscoop are paying attention to. Not TV.Com. US. And we owe it to them, as fans, to give them a balanced viewpoint.

A fan knows when a show is good. A real fan knows when a show is bad (or not quite up to par) and loves it anyway, despite any flaws. And maybe if word of mouth gets back to the creators, those flaws maybe won't come up again. Result: A truly awesome show, with a few shaky bits along the way.

Remember: There is no such thing as perfection.

I'm aware that there's no such thing as perfection. However, I don't feel there's anything wrong with a person giving an episode a 10 if they felt it was, in their eyes, perfect, or at least deserving of the highest mark.

And no, we don't have to give critical honest review, because none of us are professional critics anyway (at least I don't think so ^^; ). What we can do is give as honest a review as possible, and even then, it's still up to them if they want to take the time to think about an episode like that. I'm certainly not going to require a member to do that and ask them "Do you really think that episode deserved a 9?" everytime they select a poll option, and I doubt the other Admins want to baby members like that either.

It's a personal decision and choice. If you want to be honestly critical about the episodes or the show, then you're welcome to be. If you want to give it a high mark because you enjoyed it and it made you feel good inside, or made you hyper for 3 hours, or whatever. Go for it. The polls are relatively anonymous anyway, so no one will really no either way.

At any rate, life's too short to be spent arguing about something as petty as a person's decision to give an episode a 10 or not.

First off, mind the language, Rodri. You know the rules.

So much for freedom of opinion, eh?

I believe StarWay has had this arguement with you and other members several times over. Rules are rules. What's more, there are Child Protection Laws in place that designate what should and shouldn't be allowed to be seen on a place where children will likely to be visiting. Like this forum for example.

What's more, when you joined, you signed an agreement to obey the rules of the forum, so your point is moot. You agreed to relinquish your ability to swear in the open forums when you joined. You're still welcome to do whatever at BKO, though, as agreed.

As for the VAs, they're our special guests. They take time out of their busy busy lives and schedules to post here and throw us a bone every so often about what's going on in their lives and with CL. Anyone who attacks them here is looking for a fight and that's all there is to it.

Take time and post, eh? Come on, you and I are perfectly aware that they don't post here anymore.

Jodi Forrest - October 28th, 2006
Matthew Geczy - October 27th, 2006
Barbara Weber-Scaff - March 21th, 2007
Mirabelle Kirkland - November 15th, 2005
David Gasman - April 7th, 2007
Sharon Mann - February 18th, 2007

Half of them have been inactive for a good amount of time. Why?
*They may have lost their passwords. Seems feasible.
*They are busy with their jobs. Seems feasible.
*They got sick of getting a bunch of PMs by fans that don't understand them at all. It's not far off from reality. Remember Matthew and Taelia?
*They don't care about this forum anymore. It could be possible. After all, jobs aside, they have lives enough to not be wasting it on the Internet.

I'm well aware of your opinion of the VAs activity here, Rodri, and honestly, you're welcome to hold that view if you want. I will agree that a few of them have been inactive for quite some time however, considering that they were likely working on the new season, and possibly still might be, in addition to their other shows and jobs, is this so unreasonable?

It does not mean they no longer care, nor no longer have any interest in this forum or its members. You're not a VA, so you can't say for sure. What's more, the dates indicate that several of the VAs have been here recently, and they easily could come back again when they feel like it.

Remember, they're adults with serious full-time jobs. A large majority of the members here are students, which, while likely busy, can't quite be compared to a working adult. It's not a balanced comparison.

What's more, attacking the VAs on a forum that's supposed to be a safe haven for them is just low. What's more, they're now Mods here, and I'd expect that they be treated with the same respect that any other Mod here would be treated with.

As Cassius335 said before, they're experienced enough to handle criticism. There's barely any criticism as it always seemed that most members suck up to them.

That's your opinion.

And as I said before, the VA Boards are not the place to be criticizing the VAs as that is their personal forum for Q&A sessions. And I don't think any of the Admins here would allow a person to make a thread in CL Discussion, with the title "The VAs are lousy" or something like that. That's just rude, and shows very little consideration towards the VAs, who again I say, are now also Mods, and should be given the same courtesy.

What's more, this isn't a review site. It's a fan forum for Code Lyoko. Nobody goes to a "fan forum" looking for a critical honest review. That's just not using common sense, because of course the favor and grades are going to be skewed in the episodes favor. If a person is looking for "serious critical review" of Code Lyoko and its episodes, they should go to IMDB or TV.com (with it's larger and more diverse membership) or some other site like that.

I remember that Lyoko Freak back then used to be more than just a "fan forum" as you seem to enjoy it that way more. The Code Lyoko TvTome section was also a place for CL fans to hang around and debate. It was also a place where I could find the best reviews about the show from people like SamBlob and yourself included, among others. SamBlob is my best example of a member that isn't always getting along well with the fans, but he could put up heated debates with many other members for whatever reason, but I appreciate that. Lyoko Freak also had serious reviews from not only Blob, but animenologist, VChat 2.0 and others that could type properly enough that were willing to debate about Code Lyoko in a way that it wouldn't look that blind at all.
And it's funny how you tell me to go to IMDB and TV.com to find serious reviews because those are sites you and others here quoted as sites full of inmature members and crappy reviews, if anything.

If I recall correctly...you used to dislike, or at least weren't very fond, that people would type elaborate, long, but well-thought out posts, and participate in lengthy debates. I find it funny that you think of them now as a positive attribute to the forum (which they've always been).

That aside though, I too remember the debates and serious reviews as I participated in most of them. I miss them, but, as there haven't been any good debate topics lately (other than this one, apparently), there's not much to be done about the lack of them on the forum. Things change.

As for IMDB and TV.com, I still agree that those sites do have some largely immature members that visit regularly there. However, they are still large sites, and the member base is spread out over a wide array of fandoms and likes/dislikes. What's more, IMDB has a comment/poll system, where again, it would make more sense that a person read the comment, as opposed to just looking at the numbers, since they're all in the same place.

As for TV.com, their poll system is a 1-10 system (with all of the numbers counted and no addition "sub-comments" attached) that takes an average of all the scores given. Meaning that, while a 10 can boost an episode's score, it will likely only do so by a .01 or .1 percentage, in which case, it's minimal and the 10 really becomes obsolete in the grand scheme of things.

Bassically your allowed to have an opinion so long as your not saying anything negative about the show *rolls eyes*

So lemme get this straight Mew, I can't be a fan of Code Lyoko and be annoyed at the direction the show is heading? Then by all means that would mean I wasn't a true fan at all. And that also means I'm not much of a wrestling fan either. Because I *DO* complain when something I like starts to do things I don't like.

If you want to hold that opinion your welcome too.

However, what <u>I'm</u> saying is that I don't understand why people who complain about something in an episode get upset when someone else disagrees with them, or vice-versa. That's what used to cause a lot of the great debates around here, however, I guess people just don't have the time to debate anymore or don't see the potential to debate. I don't know. I miss the debates, personally.

I'm not saying that if you don't like everything in a particular show, then you're not a true fan. Even I have my scruples about CL; one of them was William, but that's sinceforth changed (since I like XANA-liam *snickers* ).

However, how one goes about expressing those dislikes makes all the difference. If one whines and complains at every turn about a change, without giving any real substantiated reason as to why they don't like it, then it really just comes off looking like a flame. If one expresses ones dislikes in a calm and or considerate way, even so much as simply saying "I didn't like such and such a thing because, *insert such and such reason here*." Then assuredely, the dislike or complaint looks well-thought out, and one is far more likely to get people to agree or at least understand one's point of view.

I can't guarantee that someone is randomly going to say to any complaint. "No way! You're wrong! How could you say that?" but that's just forum life. People with differing opinions but a (hopefully) common bond between them. For this forum, it's Code Lyoko.

And the voice actors are like fully grown adults with jobs and lives. If their actually giving a care about what some schmuck on LyokoFreak thinks about them then they seriously need a reality check... however that pretty much applies to anyone on any message board.

The VAs are a non-issue at this point as I have already explained that issue at least twice in this post.

As for a reality check, people get offended all the time on message and forum boards when someone says something against them directly, or against someone they know, or against something they feel strongly about or that relates to them. The VAs, even though they work for MoonScoop and on Code Lyoko, are still human beings and people, not to mention members of this forum and they should be extended the same courtesies and considerations as would any other member.

If anyone wants to further discuss the VAs at this point, kindly PM me to debate or whatever as it has nothing to do with the original intention of this thread.

And Carth, I fully agree with what you said. A person can give an episode a 1 or a 10, or anything in between. It doesn't matter, if that's what they feel it deserved.

What's more, I'll quote myself again, in case it got lost somewhere up in the rest of this huge post:

It's a personal decision and choice. If you want to be honestly critical about the episodes or the show, then you're welcome to be. If you want to give it a high mark because you enjoyed it and it made you feel good inside, or made you hyper for 3 hours, or whatever. Go for it. The polls are relatively anonymous anyway, so no one will really no either way.

At any rate, life's too short to be spent arguing about something as petty as a person's decision to give an episode a 10 or not.

[Cassius335 offline]

Oi, this might take a while to post out. I find it terribly ironic how you guys are asking for "Freedom of Opinion" and yet are automatically assuming that anyone who gives an episode a "10" isn't thinking about the episode critically.

That's basically it, yeah. Could be wrong, of course, but it's a point of possible worry.

The poll options in of themselves don't often express an accurate view of why something was given a 10, or a 7, or what have you. Just look at "Teddygozilla's" poll if you don't know what I mean. What are they supposed to gain from a poll with options like that? It barely even has anything to do with the episode at all!

Well, that's just a badly made poll...

I have always felt that if a company were seriously looking for constructive criticism about an episode or a show then they would look at what the people were actually "saying" about it. They could just as easily read the comments if they're looking at our episode threads, instead of the polls (which like I said, aren't always helpful anyway). The comments are where the real critique and serious thought is going to be.

Fair point.

Yes, the VA's (and anyone from Moonscoop lurking) are our guests, but there's no need to baby them. they can handle constructive criticism. And taking any such crit on board, they can use it to try and make the show better (whether that works or not is a whole other problem). Too much blind faith can just as damaging as any flame, because it tells Moonscoop nothing about any mistakes they might be making.

The VA Boards are for Q&A sessions with the VAs. That's not the place to critique there performances and tell them how badly or how well they did their job.

Wasn't talking about the VA boards.

I'm aware that there's no such thing as perfection. However, I don't feel there's anything wrong with a person giving an episode a 10 if they felt it was, in their eyes, perfect, or at least deserving of the highest mark.

Well, what Rodri was suggesting is that people maybe are giving that 10 automatically, without giving it any thought. Which is just as pointless as any flame.

At any rate, life's too short to be spent arguing about something as petty as a person's decision to give an episode a 10 or not.

Mew, this is the internet. People have argued (at length) about far pettier things.

As for TV.com, their poll system is a 1-10 system (with all of the numbers counted and no addition "sub-comments" attached) that takes an average of all the scores given. Meaning that, while a 10 can boost an episode's score, it will likely only do so by a .01 or .1 percentage, in which case, it's minimal and the 10 really becomes obsolete in the grand scheme of things.

Now, that's just ignoring the wood because of the pretty trees. A poll result is the sum of it's votes. And those 10's can add up pretty fast.

However, how one goes about expressing those dislikes makes all the difference. If one whines and complains at every turn about a change, without giving any real substantiated reason as to why they don't like it, then it really just comes off looking like a flame. If one expresses ones dislikes in a calm and or considerate way, even so much as simply saying "I didn't like such and such a thing because, *insert such and such reason here*." Then assuredely, the dislike or complaint looks well-thought out, and one is far more likely to get people to agree or at least understand one's point of view.

Nice paragraph. Things is, it goes the other way. A well-expressed like is worth a lot more than just:

"10!".

Looks kinda lonely, doesn't it? Blind love can be just as bad as blind hate, because they have such little thought put into them.

A thoughtless vote is worth NOTHING (and gives little room for discussion, except possibly of the 'no seriously, what drugs is that girl on?' variety).

A well-thought out vote, with reasons? Whole other ball game.

[Mewberries151]

The poll options in of themselves don't often express an accurate view of why something was given a 10, or a 7, or what have you. Just look at "Teddygozilla's" poll if you don't know what I mean. What are they supposed to gain from a poll with options like that? It barely even has anything to do with the episode at all!

Well, that's just a badly made poll...

But that's exactly the point I'm making. At least at LF, because the polls can be about anything, even if they're in an "episode thread", and because they can have "sub-selections" attached to each number (ie. "William Returns" 10 = Yay! XANA got William! or the like ), they're not very reliable polls to begin with, so the whole arguement about voting honestly falls apart if the poll doesn't say anything really important about the episode in the first place.

That's why I don't see why there's any point in making a big deal out of someone voting a 10 or not an episode, unless you're talking about season 4 and beyond. Most of the polls made previous to this whole debate were not made with the intention that the votes be taken seriously. Teddygozilla is not the only one...a quick scan of several of the polls will show you that.

I have always felt that if a company were seriously looking for constructive criticism about an episode or a show then they would look at what the people were actually "saying" about it. They could just as easily read the comments if they're looking at our episode threads, instead of the polls (which like I said, aren't always helpful anyway). The comments are where the real critique and serious thought is going to be.

Fair point.

Thank you. ^^

Yes, the VA's (and anyone from Moonscoop lurking) are our guests, but there's no need to baby them. they can handle constructive criticism. And taking any such crit on board, they can use it to try and make the show better (whether that works or not is a whole other problem). Too much blind faith can just as damaging as any flame, because it tells Moonscoop nothing about any mistakes they might be making.

The VA Boards are for Q&A sessions with the VAs. That's not the place to critique there performances and tell them how badly or how well they did their job.

Wasn't talking about the VA boards.

Ah, my mistake then.

I'm aware that there's no such thing as perfection. However, I don't feel there's anything wrong with a person giving an episode a 10 if they felt it was, in their eyes, perfect, or at least deserving of the highest mark.

Well, what Rodri was suggesting is that people maybe are giving that 10 automatically, without giving it any thought. Which is just as pointless as any flame.

Pointless, perhaps, but not against any rules, which flaming is in this case.

At any rate, life's too short to be spent arguing about something as petty as a person's decision to give an episode a 10 or not.

Mew, this is the internet. People have argued (at length) about far pettier things.

Understood and very true, unfortunately. ^^;

As for TV.com, their poll system is a 1-10 system (with all of the numbers counted and no addition "sub-comments" attached) that takes an average of all the scores given. Meaning that, while a 10 can boost an episode's score, it will likely only do so by a .01 or .1 percentage, in which case, it's minimal and the 10 really becomes obsolete in the grand scheme of things.

Now, that's just ignoring the wood because of the pretty trees. A poll result is the sum of it's votes. And those 10's can add up pretty fast.

Kudos on the metaphor. ^^

However, the polls here don't have the "averaging" feature though, just a number of how many people voted for what rating.

And yes, while those 10s could add up pretty fast, I'm willing to bet that the sheer mass of people that frequent TV.com would make it so that any amount of 10s given would have to be a large one, in order to make a clearly significant difference. What's more, I'd imagine the random CL haters that frequently haunt that site and that poll a 0 or 1 would cancel out the random thoughtless 10s. And a member can only vote 1 time, so there's no double submissions of votes (unless of course the person creates a second account or something, which in any case could happen anywhere).

However, how one goes about expressing those dislikes makes all the difference. If one whines and complains at every turn about a change, without giving any real substantiated reason as to why they don't like it, then it really just comes off looking like a flame. If one expresses ones dislikes in a calm and or considerate way, even so much as simply saying "I didn't like such and such a thing because, *insert such and such reason here*." Then assuredely, the dislike or complaint looks well-thought out, and one is far more likely to get people to agree or at least understand one's point of view.

Nice paragraph. Things is, it goes the other way. A well-expressed like is worth a lot more than just:

"10!".

Looks kinda lonely, doesn't it? Blind love can be just as bad as blind hate, because they have such little thought put into them.

A thoughtless vote is worth NOTHING (and gives little room for discussion, except possibly of the 'no seriously, what drugs is that girl on?' variety).

A well-thought out vote, with reasons? Whole other ball game.

Yes, but the point still remains, that a flame here, is against the rules. Now if someone posted something on a thread that just read "10/10", they'd be reprimanded for a spam post. It's happened before and the scolding for spam posting has been instituted so that's not going to be an issue.

And still, like I said, what everyone is forgetting is that, unless we're going to try and be "honest" for season 4, which is again going to be an impossible feat in itself, there's no point in trying to require people to vote "honestly" on the polls we have now. A lot of them weren't made for that purpose, so there's no point in requiring someone to vote seriously, if the poll was made for laughs to begin with.

On top of that, there is no way that we could "require" someone to vote in what we would feel an "honest" way, because it's impossible.

First off, only the Admins and Mods would have to have the authority to do it, because otherwise it'd cause too many fights. Second off, I really doubt that any of the Admins and Mods would enjoy trying to figure out who voted a 10 so that they can ask them if they "really honestly believe" it deserved that mark. Third, we can't force someone to vote "honestly" either, because honesty and perfection are completely up to perspective. And fourth...the comments will still be a much better way of judging an episode than the polls.

[Cassius335 offline]

But that's exactly the point I'm making. At least at LF, because the polls can be about anything, even if they're in an "episode thread", and because they can have "sub-selections" attached to each number (ie. "William Returns" 10 = Yay! XANA got William! or the like ), they're not very reliable polls to begin with, so the whole arguement about voting honestly falls apart if the poll doesn't say anything really important about the episode in the first place.

Hmm just looked at the Teddygodzilla one and I see what you mean there. Still, I don't see why people shouldn't vote honestly for a fun poll. Otherwise they're just not playing properly. And what's fun about that?

That's why I don't see why there's any point in making a big deal out of someone voting a 10 or not an episode, unless you're talking about season 4 and beyond. Most of the polls made previous to this whole debate were not made with the intention that the votes be taken seriously. Teddygozilla is not the only one...a quick scan of several of the polls will show you that.

Well, given Rodri brought this up after William Returns aired, Season 4 and beyond are probably relevant, yeah. So the rest of the polls over season 4 are going to be serious ones?

Because basically you're using polls which aren't about how good the episode is to counter an argument that people aren't voting honestly in polls about how good the episode is.

As for TV.com, their poll system is a 1-10 system (with all of the numbers counted and no addition "sub-comments" attached) that takes an average of all the scores given. Meaning that, while a 10 can boost an episode's score, it will likely only do so by a .01 or .1 percentage, in which case, it's minimal and the 10 really becomes obsolete in the grand scheme of things.

Now, that's just ignoring the wood because of the pretty trees. A poll result is the sum of it's votes. And those 10's can add up pretty fast.

Kudos on the metaphor. ^^

However, the polls here don't have the "averaging" feature though, just a number of how many people voted for what rating.

People have eyes though. If one category has 30 votes, another has 26 and the rest have 4, people can figure it out for themselves from there.

And yes, while those 10s could add up pretty fast, I'm willing to bet that the sheer mass of people that frequent TV.com would make it so that any amount of 10s given would have to be a large one, in order to make a clearly significant difference. What's more, I'd imagine the random CL haters that frequently haunt that site and that poll a 0 or 1 would cancel out the random thoughtless 10s. And a member can only vote 1 time, so there's no double submissions of votes (unless of course the person creates a second account or something, which in any case could happen anywhere).

While it's true Blind 10's and and Blind 1's can cancel each other to an extent, they still exist. And as you said, we don't have the averaging feature, so five votes are still five votes. And I'm guessing we're a smaller auidence than TV.com, so any votes stand out that little bit more

And still, like I said, what everyone is forgetting is that, unless we're going to try and be "honest" for season 4, which is again going to be an impossible feat in itself, there's no point in trying to require people to vote "honestly" on the polls we have now. A lot of them weren't made for that purpose, so there's no point in requiring someone to vote seriously, if the poll was made for laughs to begin with.

Again, you're using non-serious polls to argue a point about serious polls. And again, if people aren't voting honestly in a fun poll, what's the point?

On top of that, there is no way that we could "require" someone to vote in what we would feel an "honest" way, because it's impossible.

First off, only the Admins and Mods would have to have the authority to do it, because otherwise it'd cause too many fights. Second off, I really doubt that any of the Admins and Mods would enjoy trying to figure out who voted a 10 so that they can ask them if they "really honestly believe" it deserved that mark. Third, we can't force someone to vote "honestly" either, because honesty and perfection are completely up to perspective. And fourth...the comments will still be a much better way of judging an episode than the polls.

Ok, we can't force anyone into anything. Not important; the basic points still the same: a Well-thought out vote from someone who can actually be bothered to leave comments is going to be worth more than a 10 vote with no comments left (without which, your fourth point becomes rather moot)

Even if the poll is "Doesn't he look daft in that hat" or somesuch, then we should still vote honestly because that's what a poll is for: collating peoples honest opinions.

We can't force anyone else to vote honestly, but we can vote honestly ourselves and hoopefully encourage others to do the same.