Human Rights/Abuse Discussion

[tookys offline]

i have actualy thought of a massive global prissoner reformation society. (the prissoners create a new society with no outside intervention.)

you have prisoners that have committed a harsh crime such as a purposful murder or those that have had a series of test to prove that they are unfit for proper society.

then they are put on to a island settlement.

people from every country will be put there. the island has a 100 mile security perimter no one goes in and no one comes out. the one thing about this island is that prisonerrs are put on with nothing but a shirt and pants no knives, cups, pots, weapons, tools, or ELCTRICITY.

the island would need to be a single land mass with a stable ecosystem.

the secruity perimter will stop people from getting off or getting on.

what will ahppen is that the world would no of the island but since nobody will be abel to ever leave the island rumors of death and despair would arise making peoples fear of it grow exponentily.

this might be a cheapscap system but people that bring our society down would be removed from it forever, and be forced to build there own soceity.

what will happen is that people that have been dependent on drug trade or gang associations to get through life would have no real standing when finding food and water is more important than gang association.

what will happen is that some of them will find a way of getting clean water and a food source. but the thing is once there is stable food and water t6here are 2 possibilties

1 they devolope a fare and equal distrabution system

2 they form new gang groups to defend the resources

possibility one is the most unlikely to be chosen but it is the only one that they can choose to survive if they choose option 2 different people would make different groups and evventualy compettion for resouces would arise. and end up destroying there food systems makeing none of them devolope further.


after the people have started a food and water distrabution system

then they have to start to develope a form of shelter to protect them selves from the weather
people can make either small survivor shelters or large group shelters

in order for a large permanent shelter to be built it would require a group effort so they would have to cross gong and social boundries in order to complete the effort.

after there food and shelter is established they have to find a method of communicateing from different languages since they are from around the world.


after they break the language barrier next they have to find a way for people to work to earn food and water rations. such as jobs in schools, builders, doctors, food harvesting, water purifieng, etc. after they have reached this point the only thing they have left to do is is find a way of dealing with criminals in there society this will be the biggest challenge of all.


once they have devoloped a way to deal with there criminals they would have the ability to make there economies completely stable.

NOw the one thing that will be the hardest thing to cope with at any stage of there society is the new people that are being put onto the island. they would have to find a way of giveing them jobs and teching them the rules and how to comminicate . my best estimate to complete this entire process to have a complete and fully functioning societywould take between 10 and 15 years.


one more thing to finish off on they will never be able to use elctricity or craft metals due to the fact that the advanced knowledge of how to do it would always be there no body would be abel to figure out how to make electricity or craft metals without learning to by developement. since there would be such a big demand for it before it available people would be thinking of makeing it on too large of a scale to be able to start up sucseessfuly. So that means no chance of them coming back with m16's and nuclear weapons. they would be stuck in the middle ages until the end of time.


ok i thinks thats enough on that topic if you have any questions ask them here or PM me.

[Exploder offline]

That, my friend is a brilliant idea.

You have skills. I commend you.

However, the sheer amount of money it would take to secure an island large enough to support all these criminals would be astounding. We're talking upwards of 10 million people. For comparison, about 500,000 people live in the city of Los Angeles. In the city. Not the suburbs. If you've ever been to LA, you've seen that much of the city is high-rise. Take those 500,000 people and spread them out to where the ecosystem itself can support them, and we're talking an island easily a fifth the size of Australia. Of course, once the society develops and denser living conditions occur, then more people will be able to live there.

Proof: Studies have been done and it has been determined that no less than 0.5 hectares of arable (farmable) land is required to sustain one person. Now let's multiply that by 10,000,000. That's 5,000,000 hectares, which translates to 19,305.107 925 square miles That's an area roughly the size of West Virginia.

Here's my version of that proposal:

Locate a chain of islands, yes a chain. The reason is this: With a chain of islands, the prisoners will need to find ways of travel between islands, thus spurring the development of transport and efficient resource management. And the total area of a chain of islands is larger than one alone.

Introduce the prisoners slowly, about a thousand a month. On the largest island of the chain, build a crude "town center" consisting largely of plain concrete buildings and several fresh water wells. At least three buildings of around 100,000 square feet each, divided into ten "communities" of 10,000 square feet. This provides an initial space-per-person ratio of 300 square feet to one person. This may seem like a lot, but keep in mind that this is the size of a large bedroom. As more prisoners arrive, the prisoners already at the facility will have to adapt and learn social skills.
Keep in mind that most hardcore criminals had very successful careers in high-profile jobs such as construction, law, and social sciences. These people will emerge as the leaders of the prisoner colony.

By giving the prisoners this "town", we will ensure that they have a good starting point. The buildings provide shelter from storms and a habitable living space. From this, the construction experts can use the resources around them to expand the town area to accomodate more people.

But now we come to the problem of sex.

When you put men and women together, things will happen. There's bound to be reproduction, and then what? You have little children running around. This presents a huge amount of problems. First of all, who provides the prenatal care for the mothers? Who will care for the babies? Where will the new mothers obtain the necessary food for their babies to survive?

These problems can and will be solved by those prisoners who came from the medical field.

But you still don't want them making babies. After all, it's a prison colony. One solution is to, erm, render them unable to reproduce. But then you have the human rights activists complaining.

With a whole lot of work, this could actually work out. Tookys, PM me if you wish to continue this discussion, otherwise I fear we may hijack the thread.

[Boss Tamsy offline]

Tookys,I also commend you. But I want you to look at these.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082340/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116225/
Now understand that I am NOT saying you got your ideas from here, but you must admit that these two movies closely follow your idea.

[tookys offline]

that is pretty much exactly what im talking about

have anybody that doesn't live up to the new world standard and send them to a cesspit land to keep them from corrupting the rest of the world. of corse the air space above is 100% restricted and you can only go in after 2 years in prisson and that you had been found unsutable for society so no president will fall into this island and no presidenta daughter can go to the island to hide.



plus since it is a uninhabited island before we start puting people on there will be no electricty or any way for them to conatct the outside world for a rescue.

[JesusFreak offline]

There are two sides to this welfare/social security issue. There are some people, take myself for instance, because of my disability, SSI has helped me through most of my life. Even though I am receiving money every month, to help me live, I am still going out, finding a job, going back to school whatever, I am trying to better myself, I am trying to get off of SSI completely. There are those out there who receive this, who dont try to better themselves, and I have seen the extreme opposite, spending most of their money on wants, not needs. That kind of angers me, because this could be helping someone who really needs it, and not someone who is trying to play the system so that they dont have to work for what they want. I saw one mother who had 5 kids *no joke*..under the system, these kids also get a check every month, to help the mother buy the things they need, well instead, this woman ended up taking 3 checks for 3 of her 5 kids, and bought alcohol and other provisions for herself, in the end, the kids were taken away after an investigation.

In all honesty, the money isnt enough to do everything, it barely covers the basics, it surely cant buy happiness. Thats why Im working, and preparing to go back to school. There are others who abuse the system to no end, and it makes all of us honest people look bad.

That's why I think we need more policing of what people do with the welfare stuff.

i have actualy thought of a massive global prissoner reformation society. (the prissoners create a new society with no outside intervention.)

you have prisoners that have committed a harsh crime such as a purposful murder or those that have had a series of test to prove that they are unfit for proper society.

then they are put on to a island settlement.

Sounds like Australia . Granted, your idea is quite different, and might work.

However, I'm not so sure about CC's

But you still don't want them making babies. After all, it's a prison colony. One solution is to, erm, render them unable to reproduce. But then you have the human rights activists complaining.

...

Does the word eugenics mean anything to you?

[Exploder offline]

Where I was trying to go with that statement was that the children of these criminals would be forced to take responsibility for the actions of their parents. Those children would never have the opportunity to become successful, thriving adults.

[tookys offline]

Thats not abbsolutelt true. the children might be able to have succesful lives within the confines of the island. If the island is able to develope a stable economy then there might be a chance for children to have farely calm lives.


It might not be any worse off than New Orleans after the hurricane or might be as good as a small old town in Kansas.

But in the end if the parent gets thrown in they are responsible for their own children and if they have a law and social strucutre they could become very successeful in the carrers available.

[JesusFreak offline]

Where I was trying to go with that statement was that the children of these criminals would be forced to take responsibility for the actions of their parents. Those children would never have the opportunity to become successful, thriving adults.

I know...that's one of the problems with teh "prisoner land" idea.

Plus, do you honestly think we'd leave them alone? There would be the idiots taking pictures and making documentaries, smugglers (yes, there will be smugglers. If there's profit in blockade running they WILL be there, and Starbucks would probably already have settled the area.

In addition, there is always a spectrum. There might be Fred the Chainsaw Slasher, but there's probably seven jealous lovers you would be exposing to him.

So, i dunno.

[knifey offline]

Euthanasia

<S>I am totally not doing this because I have to type a paper on it.</S>

<S>And I'm totally not doing it to leech citations and sources.</S>

In reality, I really think this area is too grey, and I'd try to avoid it (like abortion), but in the paper I have to type, I'm forced to choose a standpoint. I choose for "physician-assisted suicide" because it <I>seems</I> to be the easier side for one such as myself to argue for.

It'd be nice to get both sides of the issue.

[JesusFreak offline]

Bleh. Killing old people apparently is just as okay as killing new people.

I oppose Euthanasia on some of the same grounds as I oppose abortion. Sounds too much like eugenics to me.

[TheAppleFreak]

Although I oppose it, it did put my little diggity dog out of his misery...
But to do it to healthy beings, it would just become eugenics.

[JesusFreak offline]

Although I oppose it, it did put my little diggity dog out of his misery...
But to do it to healthy beings, it would just become eugenics.

Well, dogs are a whole different ball of cheese. I mean, I think Spaying and Neutering your animal if you're not a breeder is acceptable. On humans, not so much.


EDIT: Wait, that IS eugenics, getting rid of the old and infirm. Bleh, still, it's on dogs.

Well, you have the token moonbat's side now Lemiar, so I shall slink into the shadows now.


*slink*

[Malkmusian offline]

Everybody has rights.