Hillary gave up (election+general politics thread as well)

[. offline]

Taelia, go run and play and let the semi-intelligent folks like me and JF continue with our political nonsense.

It does if they're not even aware about it and don't care. Unborn fetuses are NOT human.

Doesn't make it right, because that's EUGENICS. I find it hilarious how you liberals claim to love everyone and so casually defend the right to kill off "unwanted" babies


Unborn babies can have different gender, blood type, eye color, hair color, personality, bellybutton and differing facial features.


And do you consider a ship under construction part of a dock, because its anchored to it and being worked on there?

I never claim to love anyone or anything, see the above where I wish death upon the mass media. I'm just saying instead of trying to do things according to what the church in Rome says, we form our rules based on... ya know... what works best in the real world. And women, seeing as how the flippin' thing is growing inside them should be the ones to make the call as to weather they'll do the deed or not.

What I find hilarious is that you would put an aborotion doctor on the same level with that as a guy who just walked in a nursery with a gun and began poppin' kids left and right.

I don't do what the church in Rome says, I cut out the middleman. Also, see the dock and shipyard thing above.

Nope. There's difference when the baby's even more helpless inside some lady. After the thing is born, it can be adopted. Dosn't mean both aren't awful things to do...

mmm makes yourself protestant rather than catholic. I don't consider it part of the dock, but if it ain't sea-worthy yet then it ain't a ship.

I'm not saying like, abortion at the time the thing looks remotely human. But when it's just a hunk of flesh with no developed brain what so ever, thats the only proper time to abort. Thats why I'm comfortable with the abortion law as is, you are bassically allowed to up until that point and beyond that no law abiding doctor is going to do it.

Yes, but the ship, given some time, will be finished.

"A hunk of flesh with no developed brain" has a nervous system that can feel pain.


And I believe that every time I enter a political discussion, I have to remind people I am PROTESTANT. yes.

it's about the same, I just need to remember what I'm targeting. For some it's the pope, for you it's the book.

Nervous system sends signals to the brain, and the brain registers pain. The brain also comprehends pain. Paralyzed people don't feel pain because the conection beteewnt he two are seperated. THUSLY, underdeveloped fetuses feel nothing because they have nothing to register it.

[JesusFreak offline]

Taelia, go run and play and let the semi-intelligent folks like me and JF continue with our political nonsense.

It does if they're not even aware about it and don't care. Unborn fetuses are NOT human.

Doesn't make it right, because that's EUGENICS. I find it hilarious how you liberals claim to love everyone and so casually defend the right to kill off "unwanted" babies


Unborn babies can have different gender, blood type, eye color, hair color, personality, bellybutton and differing facial features.


And do you consider a ship under construction part of a dock, because its anchored to it and being worked on there?

I never claim to love anyone or anything, see the above where I wish death upon the mass media. I'm just saying instead of trying to do things according to what the church in Rome says, we form our rules based on... ya know... what works best in the real world. And women, seeing as how the flippin' thing is growing inside them should be the ones to make the call as to weather they'll do the deed or not.

What I find hilarious is that you would put an aborotion doctor on the same level with that as a guy who just walked in a nursery with a gun and began poppin' kids left and right.

I don't do what the church in Rome says, I cut out the middleman. Also, see the dock and shipyard thing above.

Nope. There's difference when the baby's even more helpless inside some lady. After the thing is born, it can be adopted. Dosn't mean both aren't awful things to do...

mmm makes yourself protestant rather than catholic. I don't consider it part of the dock, but if it ain't sea-worthy yet then it ain't a ship.

I'm not saying like, abortion at the time the thing looks remotely human. But when it's just a hunk of flesh with no developed brain what so ever, thats the only proper time to abort. Thats why I'm comfortable with the abortion law as is, you are bassically allowed to up until that point and beyond that no law abiding doctor is going to do it.

Yes, but the ship, given some time, will be finished.

"A hunk of flesh with no developed brain" has a nervous system that can feel pain.


And I believe that every time I enter a political discussion, I have to remind people I am PROTESTANT. yes.

it's about the same, I just need to remember what I'm targeting. For some it's the pope, for you it's the book.

Nervous system sends signals to the brain, and the brain registers pain. The brain also comprehends pain. Paralyzed people don't feel pain because the conection beteewnt he two are seperated. THUSLY, underdeveloped fetuses feel nothing because they have nothing to register it.

I got promoted! I would like to thank Piper, for always being there to disagree with... *hook*

Eh, no. As I said, the Pope is a middleman. Don't really need a middleman anymore...and, you can talk to God through Prayer. I mean, not like talking in a chatroom or nuffin though..

Actually, Tangent has a point. Pain isn't the best thing to judge by.

[. offline]

Well you know sir, I just like to bring it out that although we disagree, I respect that you feel the way you do and the like

[JesusFreak offline]

Same here sir, same here.

Same to you Ry.


Bleh, thass the problem with online debate, you can always forget there's another guy at another PC, just like you.

[RySenkari offline]

These are very important issues and it's easy to lose perspective. I try to be nice as much as I can but sometimes I lose my temper...

[RySenkari offline]

Taelia, I will see your Odinga video and raise you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvFAdpeTI3w

[JesusFreak offline]

Taelia, I will see your Odinga video and raise you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvFAdpeTI3w

I don't know man, don't try to win a "poor associate" fight backing Obama...

[SilverPrince offline]

About the Odinga video, firstly, I would like to say that the obsession with Barack Obama's middle name is, I think, idiotic. Yes. Barack Obama's middle name is Hussein. Do you know what that says about him, his ideals, his beliefs or his politics? Aboslutely nothing. At all. It's a name. Yes, it happens to also be the surname of a former Iraqi dictator. But that does not mean that he is anything like Saddam Hussein. Yes, Hussein is a name that is Arab in origin. Does that make him a Muslim, or an extremist? Absolutely not. Barack Obama's middle name has no effect on anything and means absolutely nothing politically. This was not directed at anyone, I just needed to rant about that.

Moving on. I am not going to say that Mr. Odinga's actions are somehow justified; they most certainly are not. However, Barack's appearance with Mr. Odinga doesn't make them "close associates", and remember that this meeting was before the violent attacks, which Obama has called "deeply troubling". Also note that his paternal uncle says that there is no relation between the Obama and Odinga families, though they do come from the same Kenyan tribe.

Also, the video about Odinga also makes mention of Pastor Wright and Bill Ayers. Just because Jeremiah Wright was Barack Obama's pastor doesn't mean that Barack has the same views as Pastor Wright. In fact, Barack has renounced the comments made by his former pastor. I'm fairly sure that he attended church there to feel spiritual and worship- not to blindly follow the words of his pastor. Even John McCain seems to think so.

I think that when people support you, it doesn't mean that you support everything they say. Obviously, those words and those statements are statements that none of us would associate ourselves with, and I don't believe that Senator Obama would support any of those, as well.

(If you want to look for that statement in the linked article, it's closer to the bottom.)

As for Bill Ayers. They served together on a non-profit board in Chicago, and Ayers and his wife hosted a gathering at their home where Illinois State Senator Alice Palmer chose Barack Obama as her successor. Obama has renounced Ayers' actions and does not have a close relationship. Yes, they might have mingled for a few moments at a political event, and they served together for a little while on boards concerning poverty. This does not mean that Obama agrees with what Ayers' organization did in the past, nor does it mean that Ayers somehow shaped Obama's political views.

I did not get the chance to finish the Olbermann video because my computer was acting up. But I will say off-topicly that that 90-year-old woman is one tough cookie to take a gunshot to the chest at her age. And from what I heard from Mr. Olbermann talking about the Kenyan pastor who likes to preach about witchcraft, I'm going to say that my above views concerning the relationship between Wright and Obama also apply to this man and Sarah Palin- this doesn't mean that Sarah Palin is an anti-Witch crusader.

My main point here is that people's opinions don't all come from the ones of people surrounding them. Does it work like that at times? Yes. But does it mean that if Person A has at times spoken with Person B, who at one point had, or still does have, controversial views, Person A must then automatically agree with everything Person B believes? No, and it's foolish to think so.

[RySenkari offline]

To be fair, the only reason Olbermann brought up the witch guy in Kenya is to basically show how absurd it is for Sarah Palin to attack Obama for his so-called "associations". Olbermann was trying to remind Mrs. Palin that people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[SilverPrince offline]

So, who all watched Barack Obama's 30-minute infomercial thing? I did, and I liked it. I liked the emphasis on the stories of various, average Americans and how they were affected by the economic crisis. And Obama throwing in stories from his own life made it seem more humanizing. And I must say, the set he used was very similar to the Oval Office- and with all the wood and such I was reminded of Abraham Lincoln- which might be kind of risky. After all, one of McCain's greatest criticisms was that Obama is already "measuring the drapes" for the White House.

But then, I've already made up my mind. I'm curious what an independent would have gotten out of the ad.

[JesusFreak offline]

So, who all watched Barack Obama's 30-minute infomercial thing? I did, and I liked it. I liked the emphasis on the stories of various, average Americans and how they were affected by the economic crisis. And Obama throwing in stories from his own life made it seem more humanizing. And I must say, the set he used was very similar to the Oval Office- and with all the wood and such I was reminded of Abraham Lincoln- which might be kind of risky. After all, one of McCain's greatest criticisms was that Obama is already "measuring the drapes" for the White House.

But then, I've already made up my mind. I'm curious what an independent would have gotten out of the ad.

At least he didn't use the Greek Columns.


Me, I didn't care. what ticked me off was those guys in Cal. who had a Halloween display with Sarah Palin lynched.

Okay, maybe that wouldn't of been so offensive if the people didn't try to defend it with "It's Halloween! That makes it funny!"

Let's see that show up for Barack...

[Taelia offline]

One part of me is saying "It'd better." Seriously, Barack needs to go. Just not that way...yet. >:) Seriously his tax increases will kill my mom's wallet.

[Mewberries151]

One part of me is saying "It'd better." Seriously, Barack needs to go. Just not that way...yet. >:) Seriously his tax increases will kill my mom's wallet.

Not funny, Taelia. Not funny at all. I don't care how much you dislike a candidate or what they bring to the table, wishing death on an innocent fellow human being is not cool.

[JesusFreak offline]

One part of me is saying "It'd better." Seriously, Barack needs to go. Just not that way...yet. >:) Seriously his tax increases will kill my mom's wallet.

Taelia, we all love you, but, seriously, stop giving them ammunition.



Also, I found if you have anything like a college fund, Obama will tax 30% of new income.


Also also, why does Obama surround himslef with self-admitted Marxists?

[RySenkari offline]

Taelia, thinking like that will start Civil War II. I can tell you love America, but the second Civil War II starts, China would come in and wipe both sides out. So either quit talking this hate speech, or start learning how to say it in Chinese.

[Taelia offline]

Okay, I'll stop.

[RySenkari offline]

Barack Obama's tax plan would not hurt your mother's wallet. It would help. And you would get a $4,000 credit to go to college. Why would I lie to you, Taelia? We're like best friends.

[JesusFreak offline]

Barack Obama's tax plan would not hurt your mother's wallet. It would help. And you would get a $4,000 credit to go to college. Why would I lie to you, Taelia? We're like best friends.

Um...


If you sell your home, the Obama's capital gains tax will tax you TWENTY EIGHT PERCENT. He will restore the inheritance tax as well. And, he will get rid of the Bush tax cuts, which will make EVERYONE's taxes bigger. He will bring in the Dividend tax which taxes your COLLEGE ACCOUNT. A gaoline tax...

If you think I'm making it up...


http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/elec ... index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues ... taxes.html
http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/poli ... taxes.html

[. offline]

Barack Obama's tax plan would not hurt your mother's wallet. It would help. And you would get a $4,000 credit to go to college. Why would I lie to you, Taelia? We're like best friends.

Um...


If you sell your home, the Obama's capital gains tax will tax you TWENTY EIGHT PERCENT. He will restore the inheritance tax as well. And, he will get rid of the Bush tax cuts, which will make EVERYONE's taxes bigger. He will bring in the Dividend tax which taxes your COLLEGE ACCOUNT. A gaoline tax...

If you think I'm making it up...


http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/elec ... index.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/issues ... taxes.html
http://elections.foxnews.com/?s=proposed+taxes
http://bulletin.aarp.org/yourworld/poli ... taxes.html

JF, if the goverment isn't getting it's funding from taxes somewhere then where are they suppose to get it? I gurrantee that if McCain wins, we'll still get taxed at some point. The only difference is Obama is being realistic. The Gov's been in a money pit since 9.11

I'd rather go with the devil thats telling me up front how he's gonna screw me, then the devil who promises he won't and then turns around and says "yyyeeeaahhh... About that no raising taxes thing..."

[RySenkari offline]

Obama's removal of the Bush taxcuts will be offset by new tax cuts for those making $250,000 or less, meaning those people will see a net decrease in taxes. The capital gains tax will also be reduced under a certain amount. The inheritance tax will only be instated for very large estates (not for family farms and such), while Obama's planned $4,000 college credit will NOT be taxed under his new plan.

[Stonecreek]

Folks, it's Election Day, and you know what that means - VOTE! If you're old enough to do so, that is. Exercise your liberties, and think for yourself. Do the nation proud today. Oh, and stop bickering; it'll all be over soon.

[Tangent128 offline]

Bah; we all know the campaigns for the 2012 primaries will begin Monday.

[TB3]

Remember Yanks, my ancestors were killed in battle so you could vote, so go exercise that right

Ultimately, I encourage you to vote as your heart and conscience dictate...but if you were to ask me which candidate I'd like to see voted in by the end of today, his name is below in REEEEEEEEEEALLY little text

Obama, I'm actually wearing the 'Obama for President' cap my sister brought me back from her school trip to America earlier this month.

And for the record, I favour the Democrats, partly because I'm a liberal-minded person, but also because on this side of the pond we're kinda sick of nearly a decade of Republican patriarchy

So, in conclusion, God Bless America and may the best man win!

[SilverPrince offline]

Teebs is right. Our forefathers didn't shoot a bunch of lobsterback Brits and dump thousands of dollars (or pounds) worth of tea into Boston Harbor for nothin', ya know. This is, as many have said, the most important election in quite a while.

I won't be able to vote for two years, so I'll have to wait until the next mid-term elections, at which time I'll be able to vote for my state's next governor and representatives. Until then, I can still pester all you grown-ups to go and exercise your right to VOTE.

Well, after tomorrow it will all be over. (Unless we have another Florida-type fiasco, God-forbid.) Then we'll have some talk about if the losing candidates will be considering a run in 2012, and then things will quiet down for two years and we'll start the cycle all over again.

[Taelia offline]

I will kill myself if Obama wins. I'm serious.