Return to the past PLEASE LOCK!

[TL.]

I'm still a newbie in the world of Code: Lyoko and a few things baffle me. The biggest one is:

Jeremie: Return to the past now! (Press return key)

What are your theories on the whole time reversal issue? TB3 has been cramming his AS-level Physic theory into my underused and underpowered mind. This is the result:

Can someone in SIMPLE (look at TB3 ) terms give their theories?

[Ulrich Stern offline]

I think the return key executes the program like any other program selected on a computer.

[Mewberries151]

2. In season one the RTTP was used to basically undo the events of the episode, preventing massive amounts of people being killed by XANA's attacks.

That's untrue actually. An RTTP cannot bring anyone back to life (but it can undo injuries) The RTTP was used to make everyone forget that anything had happened, so that no one would remember that a giant Teddy Bear rampaged across town, or that two trains carrying toxic chemicals nearly collided, or that Ulrich kissed Sissi...oh wait, scratch that last one. But there could never be any deaths because an RTTP would not be able to restore a lost life.

They must have figured this out the hard way somehow. They only just found Franz Hopper's journal, and while Jeremie's huge manual that he's filled with notes and which explains how the scanners works could have entailed it, I have a bad feeling that wasn't the case. Whether or not this will be mentioned in the prequel is debateable...they might not want to risk it, but it would explain a few things about the RTTP.

[Mewberries151]

And regarding the prequel - would they actually show something that dark? It does leave you wondering though how they found out - my theory was that when the computer resets time it has problems with dead people and skips over them - like a corrupted file, a mistake that can be traced afterwards, but not undone.

What do you guys think on this subject?

^_^ That's okay. Sorry if I've made you embarrassed though. ^^;

That's why I said it was debateable whether or not they'd actually even cover the idea. It would be exceedingly dark, and while CL has been taking some interesting turns, they might not want to risk that when there's friendlier ways of explaining it (i.e. it is in the manual ). There are certain ways they could do that, so that a little kid might not get precisely what happened, but that the message would be all too clear for the older fans.

I was tempted to write a fanfic entailing an idea sort of like this...but I didn't do to lack of inspiration, and the fact that it'd be much too morbid for me. *sweatdrop*

As for my theory on why the RTTP can't bring back a lost life, there's two halves to it. A "show" version and an actual "within the cartoon" explanation. The "show" version is that, having the RTTP not be able to bring people back to life adds more drama and gravity to any situation. They can't mess up, because that's the one mistake they can't undo. It also makes the real world scenes that much more exciting. Finally, it keeps the cartoon clear of the "You can't raise the dead" idea, out of harm's way of any group that might want to protest the idea, and keeps it safely tucked in its Y7 rating. Deaths within a cartoon are rather controversial...although DBZ kills people off and brings people back to life so many times, I wonder at how they get away with it...(no offense to any DBZ fans).

My theory that fits within the show, is alot like yours. I think the RTTP and whatever programs and mechanisms it is just can't handle the complexity of the human body (except to the extent of healing injuries). If a house has been broken...that's fixable. One simply rearranges the individual molecules back to their original structure, and the building is fully restored. But humans aren't things, and therefore aren't built like them either. Humans are made up of tiny, individual cells, which are living creatures in their own right. Once a person dies...all of those tiny cells also slowly die along with you. I have a feeling that the RTTP mechanism just doesn't have the parameters to restore something so complex and on so many different levels. Also, in each of us is a tiny electirc current that gives out in death...perhaps the RTTP can't restore that either, being itself run by electricity.

These are just my musings on it though. ^^;

[YDV offline]

2. In season one the RTTP was used to basically undo the events of the episode, preventing massive amounts of people being killed by XANA's attacks.

That's untrue actually. An RTTP cannot bring anyone back to life (but it can undo injuries)

They must have figured this out the hard way somehow. They only just found Franz Hopper's journal, and while Jeremie's huge manual that he's filled with notes and which explains how the scanners works could have entailed it, I have a bad feeling that wasn't the case. Whether or not this will be mentioned in the prequel is debateable...they might not want to risk it, but it would explain a few things about the RTTP.

Sorry (blushes) I forgot about that bit after trying to steer clear of complex pseudo-science.

Well my brother can laugh now seeing as I've just showed myself up in front of him.

And regarding the prequel - would they actually show something that dark? It does leave you wondering though how they found out - my theory was that when the computer resets time it has problems with dead people and skips over them - like a corrupted file, a mistake that can be traced afterwards, but not undone.

If Jeremie could get programmer access to the supercalculator I recon he could undo some of these system bugs, because with time-travel there is no way a dead person in the future should be dead in the past unless something got screwed up in the process.

What do you guys think on this subject?

I don't think it's got anything to do with bugs in the RTTP program-- more like it would be impossible for dead people to be brought back. Once you're dead, you're dead, and there's nothing anyone can do about it . Think about it-- someone could be obliteratedi an exploion, and areturn trip to thepast could reconstruct the cells, but it couldn't restoreit to life. It'd be just a bunch of boies with no evidence of death-- morticians and autopsy doctors would be dumbfounded. At best, it might be abe to produce short-lived zombies. But that goes ith my "undoing everything XANA's done-- w/ the excepton of deaths because that would result in unfavorable results-- and starting the day at the specific temporal coordinates" theory, not the "erasing that part in history up until the temporal coordinates" theory.

[SamBlob offline]

I don't think it's got anything to do with bugs in the RTTP program-- more like it would be impossible for dead people to be brought back. Once you're dead, you're dead, and there's nothing anyone can do about it . Think about it-- someone could be obliteratedi an exploion, and areturn trip to thepast could reconstruct the cells, but it couldn't restoreit to life. It'd be just a bunch of boies with no evidence of death-- morticians and autopsy doctors would be dumbfounded. At best, it might be abe to produce short-lived zombies. But that goes ith my "undoing everything XANA's done-- w/ the excepton of deaths because that would result in unfavorable results-- and starting the day at the specific temporal coordinates" theory, not the "erasing that part in history up until the temporal coordinates" theory.

I said just about the same thing in an unfinished fanfic I did called "The Outlaw". It mentions a new liturature teacher replacing one named Maillard (named before I realized that there's already a student named Emmanuel Maillard... ^^; ) who died quite inexplicably, with all his vitals failing at once. The team knew what happened; Maillard died before the RTTP and, as I had Jeremy put it in his thoughts, "The return to the past can't bring back what's not there to be brought back."

[YDV offline]

I'm not arguing, I'm just putting out my ideas. Jeez. What do you think I am, some kind of.. um... arguing... person?! lol well ok I admit that sometimes I do tend to go into debate mode occasionally and only if I think someone's being an ass (I SAID THINK! And you're not one so you have nothing to worry about ) but I AM generally a nice guy. Seriously. << see the smiley face? smiley faces do not lie.

I think you're... right....? (even tho i had to read it a couple times *is blown out of the technobabbler water* -___-; )

down the origin of the white wall and the kids will have a military force knockin at the door, which in itself is a cool fanfic concept. 2Cool

hehe... *points to fanfic*

Well, it's less of a government military force, more like one created by a megalomaniac idealogical extremist bent on ruling the world with a computer.

[Mewberries151]

I'm agreeing with you that the RTTP can place moleules back to their original state...the question is...can they restore a soul? I didn't want to get into this, since, as you said it's psuedo-science...and mildly based on faith.

A more scientific angle would be that perhaps, since every human being holds a tiny current of electricity within them, the RTTP can't restore that back...perhaps it even absorbs it. This could easily get into a conversation about Energy chains, even entropy...something I'm really not too well-versed in. But I'm almost positive that the RTTP can restore inanimate objects, because they lack that spark of life. I'm sure that it's not just human lives the RTTP can restore. Animals probably would not be spared either.

[MY85 offline]

RTTP alterates grieve, memories, can't restore life... but what about a pregnant Yumi or Aelita? How would that take effect? I keep wondering... dealing with molecular reversion and possible homicide...

I'm terribly sorry to butt in to all these long posts with this miserable comment.

[bduddy offline]

Well, it doesn't just take everything back... 6 hours, whatever. If it did, there'd be no way to "exempt" anyone, and the whole thing would simply run in a circle, over and over and over and over and over and... okay, I'll stop. How it actually "works", I can't even begin to guess; I'd guess that it somehow pulls the gang and the entire supercalculator apparatus out of existence and puts them back in, unchanged, however long earlier.

[YDV offline]

Re. Mew151 - In all honesty, the RTTP is the ultimate Deux et Machina plot device, but it's possibly shoddily executed by the scriptwriters, engendering these very deep questions of the human soul - as a casual Christian I believe it exists but I'm d**ned if I know WHAT it is. Regarding your idea of the matter-rearranger, while it is proven that the factory complex does rearrange matter (the scanners) the concept of altering every atom in existance is simply impossible - even in a world with Intelligent Virtual Beings and quatum computers.

bduddy: If the RTTP wiped the kids and factory out of existance and returned them to a past point in time, wouldn't that cause a lot of trouble as they would run into their past selves.



Here's an explanation in the immortal words of Doc Brown: "Coming face to face with yourself might simply give you a huge shock and you would pass out, or the disruption could cause a time-paradox, unravel the very fabric of the space-time continuum and DESTROY THE WHOLE UNIVERSE! Granted that's a worse-case scenario, the destruction may just be limited to our own galaxy."

Out of curiousity, does anyone else here agree with the theory I put up.



Hello - hello?



**** I've put them to sleep again!

*cough* Deus ex Machina. I believe you just said "Two and machine." But you're right, it's hard for it not to be one.

I think bduddy meant that it wiped them out of existence like, PERIOD and inserted them back at the temporal coordinates. But I'm not sure. Because technically if they were COMPLETELY wiped out of existence, then technically they were never born and no one would know who they were.

If they DID run into themselves, likely it would be a paradox, but not something that would destroy the whole universe. silly. i don't know the extent of that paradox, but i highly doubt it would cause galactic implosion or whatever. perhaps meeting yourself would cause two seperate timelines to intersect, and that intersection point would cause a new timeline to be created, one in which you and your other self existed.. and THEN destroying the other timelines (unless you believe in the theory that there are multiple parallel timelines or "universes" that coexist and cannot intersect unless you have some currently-sci-fi device like the RTTP mechanism), rather than destroying both like matter and anti-matter coming together, MAYBE causing the destruction of the universe as we know it.. which might mean you wouldn't be able to RTTP anymore or something like that. idk. i'm a freshman in the oversized shoes of someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

[Mewberries151]

Re. Mew151 - In all honesty, the RTTP is the ultimate Deux et Machina plot device, but it's possibly shoddily executed by the scriptwriters, engendering these very deep questions of the human soul - as a casual Christian I believe it exists but I'm d**ned if I know WHAT it is. Regarding your idea of the matter-rearranger, while it is proven that the factory complex does rearrange matter (the scanners) the concept of altering every atom in existance is simply impossible - even in a world with Intelligent Virtual Beings and quatum computers.

I disagree that it's shoddily executed. They don't go into the soul thing because that's very dangerous territory for a cartoon at any level. And none of the technical theories we're posing would be entirely too long to fit into an episode, and would also be way over the heads of the targeted age group. It's way over my head for the most part for that fact. ^^;

I wasn't suggesting a "matter-rearranger"...although now that I'm thinking of it, that might actually be plausible. Perhaps it works much like the Omega 13? Only instead of 13 seconds, it's been advanced to the level that the amount of time jumped can be programmed. (Kudos to those who get the Omega 13 reference). ^_^

[bduddy offline]

Forget a cartoon; I don't think it could be adequately explained for any audience. Those who don't know stuff would be like "huh?" and those that do would be like "But that's wrong!" I think we're just going to have to file this one under S, for Suspension of Disbelief.

[YDV offline]

Forget a cartoon; I don't think it could be adequately explained for any audience. Those who don't know stuff would be like "huh?" and those that do would be like "But that's wrong!" I think we're just going to have to file this one under S, for Suspension of Disbelief.

I DON'T GIVE UP THAT EASILY!!!

But you're right-- I don't think we'd find any reasonable scientific explanation for this... sci-fi as it may be, perhaps the RTTP is a bit of fantasy..

[Snarky Jargon offline]

Simple Answer: The return to the past program is just one of many plot devices!

Show's answer: Well, when they say "return to the past" I think they literally mean returning to it--it's like setting back a clock a few hours, or hitting the rewind button. Time is reset to the point where X.A.N.A.'s tower first activated or when he began making the moves on Earth--whichever is more convinent.

What bugs me about the RTTP is does it send the body of a person back, or their minds? And if it's just their minds, as the show suggests (that broken arm from 'The Trap' would've been hard to explain otherwise), how do they do it? Also note that while injuries don't follow them back, exhaustion does. As for the buildings... hahawow I don't want to think about that. Property damage is just... fixed?

And what about on Lyoko? Is the damage done there reversed, too? Does X.A.N.A. come back with all his memory, or does it all get wiped out and leaves him drained for a few days? (In this case, *coughcough*ROUTINE*coughcough*)

And how far can it go back, anyway? A few hours? A day?

...well, to me it just looks like a plot device gone wrong. "How am I supposed to cover for this giant teddy bear wrecking up the world? Nah, let's give them an actual answer instead of the repairs being made overnight. RETURN TO THE PAST NOW!"

[lyokodude offline]

Of course its with the many plot ttheories I agree with you Snarky dragon

[YDV offline]

Wait a minute... I think we've been trying to make it more complicated than it is. I think what actually happens is the RTTP literally sends the gang back in time to the point of the coordinates, and then the XANA attack/Lyoko related stuff just never happens.

*scrolls up*

...oh. um... what snarky jargon said.

I think it sends their bodies back, not their mind. For that to happen, they'd all have to be in Lyoko.

[bduddy offline]

But then, how does it send everyone else's mind back?