Bush...

[kindpastor offline]

With that, I am going to stop voicing my opinions, I don't want the world to be against me. I don't really think everything that I do or say out first, and that is not really very good, but that's how I am. So with mattters such as politics, which is very important to me, I am going to back down and just leave with saying....

BUSH ROCKS!

Don't be a wimp. As far as the war goes I look at it like this:

There are 2 kinds of middle-eastern countries

The first kind included countries like Lebanon, their economy is good and they have many civil liberties, in some cases even more than the US.

The second kind is countries like Iraq, Syria, and Afghanistan--these countries have very few civil liberties and are repressed under religious leaders and dictators.

It is in this second kind of country where terrorists are created.

It seems to me that to nip terrorism where it is born, we need to convert the second kind of country into the first, we are doing this, slowly but surely in Iraq and Afganhistan. We are redisigning the school curriculum there so they learn real history and not how the jews are secretly running the world, we are encouraging free elections and free markets--the only thing we haven't done is build dicoteques to encourage free expression--which we should do. It will be a long, hard road but hopefully in 100 years or so there will only be arab nations with free governments and propserous economies that do not breed terrorism.

[Paige offline]

With that, I am going to stop voicing my opinions, I don't want the world to be against me. I don't really think everything that I do or say out first, and that is not really very good, but that's how I am. So with mattters such as politics, which is very important to me, I am going to back down and just leave with saying....

BUSH ROCKS!

Don't be a wimp.

Actually backing down from something like a debate can be an act or maturity. In my case... I believe it is. I don't feel like getting into a debate when people can like end up hating me after. And if this is being a wimp... then oh well.

[MY85 offline]

War isn't a easy issue to handle. The way Bush handles war is like some enfuriated teenager playing some war videogame on a PS2. Shoot there, shoot this... invade the territory... you win, game over.

With that, I am going to stop voicing my opinions, I don't want the world to be against me.

You are responsible for your own opinions. That, I can say.

[Lyoko_Aelita offline]

GO PAIGE!!!!! I think the same way you do!
If we pulled the soldiers back, then the terrerist would attack us again!
People don't think about that do they? nope, ofcourse they don't.

Oh, and don't EVEN get me started on Katrina!

[MY85 offline]

I don't feel like getting into a debate when people can like end up hating me after. And if this is being a wimp... then oh well.

So you stop debating just to not get people hating you? They would win because you just quit to avoid people hating you. I pity you.

If we pulled the soldiers back, then the terrerist would attack us again!
People don't think about that do they? nope, ofcourse they don't.

Oh, and don't EVEN get me started on Katrina!

You say it was just a terrorist group that attacked the USA. What reasons would it have to bomb innocent (I'm not much aware of the real situation, but Michael Moore makes me LMAO at Bush) people just to hunt down a organization? Besides, the attacking and invasion only cultivates hate, fear, violence and anger.

About Katrina: it's funny to see that poor countries like Cuba could have handled a situation like that better than the USA would. Bush only defends his own nation against possible terrorists attacks, but he completely ignored the possibility of a natural disaster. However, I've heard that some of the latest tornados USA recieved could have been manipulated by russian scientists.

[TB3]

What I still don't like is the attitude of certain Americans that their nation has the right to change the world and other nations as it sees fit. This is in direct contradiction of a nation which broke away from an empire and championing independance (historically a move I support despite being British). The monkier 'Defender of the Free World' really gets my blood boiling when I hear it.

And I'd like to point out, terrorists are bred in all countries, not just the Middle-East - the July 7th bombings in Britain were all carried out by British nationals who had never left my country, motivated by anger and hatred of the deaths of Muslims in the Middle-East.

And I agree with Rodri - America has an overly simplistic view of the world politically - 'We good, they bad - LOCK 'N' LOAD!'

And I guess a few people here are very patriotic (to an extent I respect that), but have any WMDs been found? How are things better in Iraq when more people are killed in suicide bombings every day than were before the invasion? Why did the contracts for rebuilding oil pipelines go straight to Dick Chaney's 'Halle-Burton' company without being tendered to other American (or God-forbid!) foreign companies?

I think Hussein needed to go. I think the Talibian should have been removed from power. I don't think Bush should be championed as an American Hero when he spearheaded the complete f**king-up of the Middle East.

Thankyou for your time - and remember, I'm not having a go at you, just venting some spleen against the current administration.

[MY85 offline]

What I still don't like is the attitude of certain Americans that their nation has the right to change the world and other nations as it sees fit.

Indeed. But I do like the idea of living at USA, despite politicians, natural disasters and latinos invading the USA (I still dislike the fact they killed Miami and input their culture and traaditions).

And I'd like to point out, terrorists are bred in all countries, not just the Middle-East - the July 7th bombings in Britain were all carried out by British nationals who had never left my country, motivated by anger and hatred of the deaths of Muslims in the Middle-East.

Terrorists bred worldwide. Enough said. Though, the US forbids Colombian and LatinAmerican druglords to get their cocaine and other sorts of drugs just because USA can't make it better. If USA could make the world's best cocaine, maybe you could see it legalized... maybe... I'm not sure.

And I guess a few people here are very patriotic

Look around LF, you'll see some patriotic people. And besides, the guy who made the thread didn't include of the poll options such as "I don't care, he's not my president", which I would have marked.

[kindpastor offline]

I don't feel like getting into a debate when people can like end up hating me after. And if this is being a wimp... then oh well.

So you stop debating just to not get people hating you? They would win because you just quit to avoid people hating you. I pity you.

If we pulled the soldiers back, then the terrerist would attack us again!
People don't think about that do they? nope, ofcourse they don't.

Oh, and don't EVEN get me started on Katrina!

You say it was just a terrorist group that attacked the USA. What reasons would it have to bomb innocent (I'm not much aware of the real situation, but Michael Moore makes me LMAO at Bush) people just to hunt down a organization? Its like I explained in my original post--while terrorits are bread in every country the ideal conditions exist in the middle east--that is why these conditions have to be removed Besides, the attacking and invasion only cultivates hate, fear, violence and anger.That isn't the situation in Iraq, the majority of Iraqi's support the US occupation

About Katrina: it's funny to see that poor countries like Cuba could have handled a situation like that better than the USA wouldThis is news to me? How so?. Bush only defends his own nation against possible terrorists attacks, but he completely ignored the possibility of a natural disaster. However, I've heard that some of the latest tornados USA recieved could have been manipulated by russian scientists.[color=red]Is this is a joke? DO you have any proof of this?

[kindpastor offline]

What I still don't like is the attitude of certain Americans that their nation has the right to change the world and other nations as it sees fit.We stoppoed doing this for the most part in the 1920's and only started up again after the attack on pearl harbor, I'm not going to defend our cold war policies because I don't support them for the most part (thats the "old democrats" for you), but I will say that it has been proven that countries in the middle east are a primary source for terrorism against the United States--in religious schools, usually the only ones children can afford to go to, they are taught that the United States is the source of all evil in the world and that it is noble to kill innocents from such a country. As long as these conditions exist the US will be attacked--I think it necessary to chnage them "as we see fit" to prevent future bloodshed as we did in Europe and Japan. This is in direct contradiction of a nation which broke away from an empire and championing independance (historically a move I support despite being British). The monkier 'Defender of the Free World' really gets my blood boiling when I hear it.JUst like the US needed France's help to break away from the British so did the Iraqi's need the US's help to break free from the rule of Saddham.

And I'd like to point out, terrorists are bred in all countries, not just the Middle-East - the July 7th bombings in Britain were all carried out by British nationals who had never left my country, motivated by anger and hatred of the deaths of Muslims in the Middle-East.Not all, but most--I see no harm in trying to change a way of life that threatens ours

And I agree with Rodri - America has an overly simplistic view of the world politically - 'We good, they bad - LOCK 'N' LOAD!'There exist things in this world called "probable truths" while there may be no such thing as complete truth there are truths that are so likely to occur--they can be considered to be "absolute truth" for all intents and purposes--these truths include: "The intentional killing of civillians is wrong", "opression of women is wrong", "mutilation is wrong"--the united states treats this probable truths as objective truths within themselves for all intents and purposes.

And I guess a few people here are very patriotic (to an extent I respect that), but have any WMDs been found?Sarin gas, mustard gas, white phosphorus How are things better in Iraq when more people are killed in suicide bombings every day than were before the invasion? Why did the contracts for rebuilding oil pipelines go straight to Dick Chaney's 'Halle-Burton' company without being tendered to other American (or God-forbid!) foreign companies?The only problem is Cheney has long since disolved all financial ties to Halliburton and the company itself is not making any more money in Iraq than it ever did

I think Hussein needed to go. I think the Talibian should have been removed from power. I don't think Bush should be championed as an American Hero when he spearheaded the complete f**king-up of the Middle East.You speak as if it wasn't f**ed up before

Thankyou for your time - and remember, I'm not having a go at you, just venting some spleen against the current administration.[debate is necessary[/color]

[kindpastor offline]

What I still don't like is the attitude of certain Americans that their nation has the right to change the world and other nations as it sees fit.

Indeed. But I do like the idea of living at USA, despite politicians, natural disasters and latinos invading the USA (I still dislike the fact they killed Miami and input their culture and traaditions).

And I'd like to point out, terrorists are bred in all countries, not just the Middle-East - the July 7th bombings in Britain were all carried out by British nationals who had never left my country, motivated by anger and hatred of the deaths of Muslims in the Middle-East.

Terrorists bred worldwide. Enough said.Yes, although a diproportionately large number come from the middle east Though, the US forbids Colombian and LatinAmerican druglords to get their cocaine and other sorts of drugs just because USA can't make it better. If USA could make the world's best cocaine, maybe you could see it legalized... maybe... I'm not sure.We did at the turn of the century--but it got caught up and banned along with liquor by the prohibitionists, it was never again legalized and has since beeen refined into dangerous levels--this is one thing I disagree with my government's policies on

And I guess a few people here are very patriotic

Look around LF, you'll see some patriotic people. And besides, the guy who made the thread didn't include of the poll options such as "I don't care, he's not my president", which I would have marked.

[MY85 offline]

First off, don't triple post next time, kindpastor (it looks spammy, even if you didn't had that intention). You could copy and paste and edit... unless you're not much used to bbCode.

About Katrina: it's funny to see that poor countries like Cuba could have handled a situation like that better than the USA would.

This is news to me? How so?

The Cubans have already programs for evacuating people from disasters such as Katrina. Even if they have much lower budget than the USA, they could have handled the Katrina disaster better than Bush did. BTW, there's a Katrina thread around General Discussion, just to let you know.

We did at the turn of the century--but it got caught up and banned along with liquor by the prohibitionists, it was never again legalized and has since beeen refined into dangerous levels--this is one thing I disagree with my government's policies on.

That I can agree.

[kindpastor offline]

First off, don't triple post next time, kindpastor (it looks spammy, even if you didn't had that intention). You could copy and paste and edit... unless you're not much used to bbCode.

Yeah, sorry--I wanted to answer each post seperatly

The Cubans have already programs for evacuating people from disasters such as Katrina. Even if they have much lower budget than the USA, they could have handled the Katrina disaster better than Bush did. BTW, there's a Katrina thread around General Discussion, just to let you know.

Things to keep in mind are that cuba has less people do deal with in the area it was hit--also could you link me to the article on this

[MY85 offline]

Yeah, sorry--I wanted to answer each post seperatly

It's okay. You do have some good points.

The Cubans have already programs for evacuating people from disasters such as Katrina. Even if they have much lower budget than the USA, they could have handled the Katrina disaster better than Bush did. BTW, there's a Katrina thread around General Discussion, just to let you know.

Things to keep in mind are that cuba has less people do deal with in the area it was hit--also could you link me to the article on this

One problem with that: I can't find the exact article about Cubans evacuation. I've heard a bit about it on CNN and other news channels of the sort. But I do have some articles:

http://www.globalexchange.org/countries ... /3531.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5927015/

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/FE494

I hope they can be useful to you. Sorry I'm not giving you exactly what you wanted at first.

[Paige offline]

You people obviously have no idea what your talking about. Not to mention the fact that you are WAY misinformed. You getting this from CNN? Wow. How Gay.

[kindpastor offline]

Yeah--it says that the most people evacuated at a time were 95,000 in cuba--New orleans has a population of 1.2 million--the majority of which survived--I just don't see the main comparison but myabe i will.

You people obviously have no idea what your talking about. Not to mention the fact that you are WAY misinformed. You getting this from CNN? Wow. How Gay.

Next time just say

I find CNN to be bias at times, we should look at the actual data

This is how to not get people pissed off while you debate them.

[MY85 offline]

You getting this from CNN? Wow. How Gay.

Actually, I used Google.

Next time just say

I find CNN to be bias at times, we should look at the actual data

This is how to not get people pissed off while you debate them.

Much agreed.

EDIT: Speaking of Cubans, why the hell did Bush limited licenses for travelling to Cuba? I know there was changes on the US-Cuba policy, but still that sucks. I mean, some travel for tourism, others for cheaper liposuctions and other surgery operations (example: in Spain, some operations can cost $25000, but at Cuba it costs $10000. You save $15000, but you can also take tours, party over Cuba and... prostitution is $200 or less. I hate Fidel Castro, anyways... and I'm not from Cuba).

[Dreamscape offline]

Everyone is so con war. I don't understand this. Most NOT ALL but MOST of the soldiers there were excited about going to war. They WANTED to. Now, there were probably some who were forced... but most want to be there. Or at least enlisted [volunteered] Anyway, there will NEVER be world peace. So, the best idea is to have troops in places where America isn't exactly favored and try to stop things from happening as much as possible. There will ALWAYS be some country holding a grudge against us, as long as Pandora's Box was opened, there will always be a bad egg who has the power to trun the world against America. Which most likely will never happen. And besides, Bush is going to be President right now and there really isn't anything that you can do to change that.

Hmm... I'd like to see you fight in the war.

My brother went to Iraq. My *BROTHER*. I want you to understand that. You have *NO CLUE* how scary that was for my family and me. Waking up every day and waiting to find out he had his head blown off while fighting to keep you alive and ignorant. You sicken me.

You people obviously have no idea what your talking about. Not to mention the fact that you are WAY misinformed. You getting this from CNN? Wow. How Gay.

Hypocrite.

[kindpastor offline]

I think it faulty reasoning to say that only those with relatives in the war should be listened to when they comment about it. BTW is your brother for the war? I hear that the majority of servicemen were.

[Dreamscape offline]

I think it faulty reasoning to say that only those with relatives in the war should be listened to when they comment about it. BTW is your brother for the war? I hear that the majority of servicemen were.

People who are closer to this tend to know more about it than other people. I'm not saying this is true all of the time, mind you...

My brother is not for the war, but he's loyal to the US and his duties in the army, so he didn't complain. When he finally came home, he didn't like to talk about it though. I think it affected him more than he let on.

[MY85 offline]

Hmm... I'd like to see you fight in the war.

*pictures Paige in war as some sort of nurse* First thing about strategy of war: blow up the hospitals and nursery and doctors that can attend the soldiers professionally.

I don't know much about how USA handles war, but do women do anything else besides attending the fallen ones? (Of course, besides saving their butts)

How long did he served in the war? (If that can be known... don't answer if you don't want to)

I've seen on Farenheit that many soldiers change their minds after the war experience. They end up thinking of Bush as an fool and that war is pointless. Am I right?

[kindpastor offline]

Hmm... I'd like to see you fight in the war.

*pictures Paige in war as some sort of nurse* First thing about strategy of war: blow up the hospitals and nursery and doctors that can attend the soldiers professionally.Based on servicewomen in Panama women are perfectly capable of shooting to kill

I don't know much about how USA handles war, but do women do anything else besides attending the fallen ones? (Of course, besides saving their butts)
They shoot and kill the enemy, destroy things, just what a typical soldier would do.
How long did he served in the war? (If that can be known... don't answer if you don't want to)

I've seen on Farenheit that many soldiers change their minds after the war experience. They end up thinking of Bush as an fool and that war is pointless. Am I right?There were a lot of..."misconstruations" in that movie--actual polls show that most soldiers are in favor of the war.

[Max Gene offline]

Actually for many countries shooting down noncoms is against rules of war I believe, though I may be wrong, and definitely am about terrorists. Also, if you enlisted for whatever reason, I'm sorry to be cold, but whatever happens to you is your fault for joining up. Whether it was for college or whatever, you sign up to fight, you better be ready to fight, though I'm against drafts.

I don't see why any soldier should be against war unless there was a draft- it's your own dang fault for getting volunarily involved for one reason or another. I have no sympathy for those who are against going, only the ones who get shot for fulfulling their duty.

[KarinBerry offline]

Everyone is so con war. I don't understand this. Most NOT ALL but MOST of the soldiers there were excited about going to war. They WANTED to. Now, there were probably some who were forced... but most want to be there. Or at least enlisted [volunteered] Anyway, there will NEVER be world peace. So, the best idea is to have troops in places where America isn't exactly favored and try to stop things from happening as much as possible. There will ALWAYS be some country holding a grudge against us, as long as Pandora's Box was opened, there will always be a bad egg who has the power to trun the world against America. Which most likely will never happen. And besides, Bush is going to be President right now and there really isn't anything that you can do to change that. Although, I would have liked to watch Kerry become President and then fall flat on his face as soon as another country committed another terrorist attack on us. That would have been quite amusing. I mean, President Bush had that whole terrorist attack thing to handle, and the country is still running rather smoothly right? He handled that well, considering. He will be able to do it again. THIS is why there haven't been too many other intense terrorist attacks committed in America.

Paige, what proof do you have that Kerry would not have been able to handle a terrorist attack? It's all speculation, and I can't say with any more certainty than you can, but I think he would have stood up to the test as well as Bush did in 2001.

Also, I'm curious as to what you think GW is doing correctly right now. Judging by your signature, I'm guessing you don't register on the extreme left side of the Kinsey scale. What do you think about GW's rallying against the queer community? Do you think it's his place to push for laws banning marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman? Where do you think the line is drawn between church and state?

As for your statement that we're stuck with Bush, I think you're wrong. There IS something we can do about it. It's extreme, but it's been tried before. We could impeach him if we got enough votes in favor of it. Just because he slipped into the White House for another four years, that doesn't mean he's gauaranteed the full run.

Paige - just a point that not everyone here is American - the actions from your last post which might seem justified to you can seem to some of us outsiders as less like foreign policy and more like policing the world.

Just a thought.

War isn't a easy issue to handle. The way Bush handles war is like some enfuriated teenager playing some war videogame on a PS2. Shoot there, shoot this... invade the territory... you win, game over.

Ditto to that, TB3 and Rodri. I've lived in the states my whole life and I disagree with our foreign policy. Especially under GW's command, the USA has turned into a rude playground monitor. We've shoved our noses into the world's business for long enough, in my opinion. This whole thing started because we got involved in a RELIGIOUS war. Now the whole thing is political and no matter what we do, whether we stay or pull out, feelings will be hurt and people will be angry.

You people obviously have no idea what your talking about. Not to mention the fact that you are WAY misinformed. You getting this from CNN? Wow. How Gay.

o.O

once again, making a presumption based on your signature, but your use of the phrase "How Gay" surprises me. I have been involved in the gay community for quite some time and have not picked up from anyone I've met EVER that they think it's alright to use that phrase to describe anything but someone's sexuality (it's certainly not a good thing in my book).
I know this isn't about Bush, per say, but I was really struck by your usage of the phrase, especially as <i>it immediately followed your complete disregard for everyone's knowledge of the subject at hand</i>. Had I been involved in the debate up till now, I would have been more insulted by the entire comment than I already am by the "How Gay" part.

[MY85 offline]

Judging by your signature, I'm guessing you don't register on the extreme left side of the Kinsey scale. What do you think about GW's rallying against the queer community? Do you think it's his place to push for laws banning marriage between a man and a man or a woman and a woman?

AS I've heard from Chris Rock before: (not exact text, except for the thing about gay marriage, but what counts is the message)

-Mr. President, how is the war going?
Bush: Well, you never know... we send our troops, help them out... wipe out terrorists... how's it going?
-Mr. President, how about the economy?
Bush: Well, you never know... it goes up and down... how you doing?
<b>-Mr President, what do you think about gay marriage?
Bush: F**k 'em f***ots!!</b>

Just because he slipped into the White House for another four years, that doesn't mean he's gauaranteed the full run.

In Peru, I think Toledo abolished re-election, which ex-peruvian president Alberto Fujimori (held as prisioner in Chile currently) has instaured. But I'm not sure. But I remember you could only be re-elected once. Fujimori broke his own rule and did it for a third time. He won against Toledo in a second round (fraud involved, of course... seeing Toledo dropping from 48% to 40% was notorious)... months later, he ran away... long story.

BOT: Is there any limit on the US for re-election of presidents?

Ditto to that, TB3 and Rodri. I've lived in the states my whole life and I disagree with our foreign policy. Especially under GW's command, the USA has turned into a rude playground monitor. We've shoved our noses into the world's business for long enough, in my opinion. This whole thing started because we got involved in a RELIGIOUS war. Now the whole thing is political and no matter what we do, whether we stay or pull out, feelings will be hurt and people will be angry.

Thanks for agreeing with my point. I'm sure TB3 will thank you for agreeing with his point once he sees your post.

To my own experience: I lived when I was a child at the States for 5 years. Life was better for me there, Peru is a crappier country (lack of variety of stuff, dumb politics, delinquence, poverty, many unemployed people, etc.) than the US. It happened when GW Bush (the father) was about to end and Clinton being already the president.

But when I returned in 2004, I was on the DC. My only fear was to get an airplane crashing by the city, or some random terrorist doing some crazy stuff on the States. Lucky it didn't happened.

Religious war: Isn't USA's religion the money? People worship money. It's really important to live and pay your stuff... but God is in the USA's citizens pockets. "In God We Trust".

About the last thing you said, I'm like lmao after looking at Paige's signature and the fact that she supports Bush. Kids these days...

EDIT:

However, I've heard that some of the latest tornados USA recieved could have been manipulated by russian scientists.

Is this is a joke? DO you have any proof of this?

Sorry if I've ignored this. I've heard that on some news articles at the moment the Katrina event happened. When I read this, the ideas came from the USA government, I think. Saying something among the lines of that russians have some weapon or machinery to alterate tornados and other sorts of stuff.

[kindpastor offline]

Just because he slipped into the White House for another four years, that doesn't mean he's gauaranteed the full run.

In Peru, I think Toledo abolished re-election, which ex-peruvian president Alberto Fujimori (held as prisioner in Chile currently) has instaured. But I'm not sure. But I remember you could only be re-elected once. Fujimori broke his own rule and did it for a third time. He won against Toledo in a second round (fraud involved, of course... seeing Toledo dropping from 48% to 40% was notorious)... months later, he ran away... long story.

BOT: Is there any limit on the US for re-election of presidents?American Presidents may only be re-elected twice

Ditto to that, TB3 and Rodri. I've lived in the states my whole life and I disagree with our foreign policy. Especially under GW's command, the USA has turned into a rude playground monitor. We've shoved our noses into the world's business for long enough, in my opinion. This whole thing started because we got involved in a RELIGIOUS war. Now the whole thing is political and no matter what we do, whether we stay or pull out, feelings will be hurt and people will be angry.

Thanks for agreeing with my point. I'm sure TB3 will thank you for agreeing with his point once he sees your post.

To my own experience: I lived when I was a child at the States for 5 years. Life was better for me there, Peru is a crappier country (lack of variety of stuff, dumb politics, delinquence, poverty, many unemployed people, etc.) than the US. It happened when GW Bush (the father) was about to end and Clinton being already the president.

But when I returned in 2004, I was on the DC. My only fear was to get an airplane crashing by the city, or some random terrorist doing some crazy stuff on the States. Lucky it didn't happened.

Religious war: Isn't USA's religion the money? People worship money. It's really important to live and pay your stuff... but God is in the USA's citizens pockets. "In God We Trust".The US has no official religion, but if you mean our devotion to capitalism all I can say is that what has granted us our power and extremelly comfortable way of life--if anything it one of the best aspects of the United States

About the last thing you said, I'm like lmao after looking at Paige's signature and the fact that she supports Bush. Kids these days...Lesser or two evils my friend

EDIT:

However, I've heard that some of the latest tornados USA recieved could have been manipulated by russian scientists.

Is this is a joke? DO you have any proof of this?

Sorry if I've ignored this. I've heard that on some news articles at the moment the Katrina event happened. When I read this, the ideas came from the USA government, I think. Saying something among the lines of that russians have some weapon or machinery to alterate tornados and other sorts of stuff.

This sounds like pure fantasy to me, I'll bet if it was in a newspaper article the source was "anonymous" at best