Bush...

[JeremysGirl offline]

That is stupid.

[KarinBerry offline]

You obviously only read the headline of this stroy or heard about it from an unreliable source--this story was reported many places, I was amazed at the amount of facts left out many of the articles I read, including:

1.The man claimed he had a bomb
2The man assualted the Air marshall

If a man claiming he had a bomb in his carry on suddenly ran at you with it--well I don't know what you personally would do in that situation. BTW it turns out this guy had bi-polar disorder--I've got a friend with the same thing and he ALWAYS takes his pills--unlike this individual who felt the need to skip them.

sorry I'm jumping in late on this one, and this is somewhat off topic, but I feel like I need to throw in my two cents.

Kindpastor, I have bipolar disorder, as does my sister. We are two very different cases, though.

I experience more lows than highs, and these lows are crippling. I've failed classes and missed work because I can barely get myself out of bed to face the day. Just a few days ago, on Christmas Eve, I was so inexplicably depressed that I missed church with my family (I don't do church, really, but it meant a lot to my father, who is religious, and I really wanted to go for him). I could not stop crying. When they came home, I had finally calmed down, but I could not get off the couch. With the new year, I'll have my mental health coverage back, and I will be finding a psychiatrist to visit to see about getting myself put back on some meds. I'm trying to graduate this Spring and I'm working two jobs, and I'm not going to let my mood disorder get in the way of that, lows and highs be darned.

My sister experiences fantastic manic episodes. She rarely gets depressed (though, when she does, it's as bad as mine). She refuses to take medicine for her mood swings. I don't blame her, really. Why take pills to get rid of something that feels <i>good</i>? In reality, she just doesn't think she'd ill. In her mind, sickness should hurt. As a result, she finds herself in the throes of a manic phase, which can be just as destructive as a depressive phase. She spends money and stays out all night. Her bahaviour is erratic and unplanned, and her speech is so rapid no one can understand her. She usually ends up cutting or dying her hair, or piercing another body part. In the old days, she'd run out and get high. In large part, the definiteion of insanity is not understanding the consequences of your actions. I'd say she qualifies for that when she's manic.

So, just to give this dead guy the benfit of the doubt, let's just say that maybe he was like my sister, and that's why he chose to 'skip' his meds. It's not that he was irresponsible, but that he didn't feel he needed them at all. Sadly, that is <i>part of the illness</i>. If he was in the midst of his highest high or lowest low, he had no idea what was going on or what he was doing. He did the only thing he knew how in order to get himself off that plane, where he knew he <i>did not want to be</i>. No one would let him off the easy way, so he claimed he had a bomb. It got him off the plane, but it also got him killed. It's sad and very messed up, in my mind.

[kindpastor offline]

You obviously only read the headline of this stroy or heard about it from an unreliable source--this story was reported many places, I was amazed at the amount of facts left out many of the articles I read, including:

1.The man claimed he had a bomb
2The man assualted the Air marshall

If a man claiming he had a bomb in his carry on suddenly ran at you with it--well I don't know what you personally would do in that situation. BTW it turns out this guy had bi-polar disorder--I've got a friend with the same thing and he ALWAYS takes his pills--unlike this individual who felt the need to skip them.

sorry I'm jumping in late on this one, and this is somewhat off topic, but I feel like I need to throw in my two cents.

Kindpastor, I have bipolar disorder, as does my sister. We are two very different cases, though.

I experience more lows than highs, and these lows are crippling. I've failed classes and missed work because I can barely get myself out of bed to face the day. Just a few days ago, on Christmas Eve, I was so inexplicably depressed that I missed church with my family (I don't do church, really, but it meant a lot to my father, who is religious, and I really wanted to go for him). I could not stop crying. When they came home, I had finally calmed down, but I could not get off the couch. With the new year, I'll have my mental health coverage back, and I will be finding a psychiatrist to visit to see about getting myself put back on some meds. I'm trying to graduate this Spring and I'm working two jobs, and I'm not going to let my mood disorder get in the way of that, lows and highs be darned.

My sister experiences fantastic manic episodes. She rarely gets depressed (though, when she does, it's as bad as mine). She refuses to take medicine for her mood swings. I don't blame her, really. Why take pills to get rid of something that feels <i>good</i>? In reality, she just doesn't think she'd ill. In her mind, sickness should hurt. As a result, she finds herself in the throes of a manic phase, which can be just as destructive as a depressive phase. She spends money and stays out all night. Her bahaviour is erratic and unplanned, and her speech is so rapid no one can understand her. She usually ends up cutting or dying her hair, or piercing another body part. In the old days, she'd run out and get high. In large part, the definiteion of insanity is not understanding the consequences of your actions. I'd say she qualifies for that when she's manic.

So, just to give this dead guy the benfit of the doubt, let's just say that maybe he was like my sister, and that's why he chose to 'skip' his meds. It's not that he was irresponsible, but that he didn't feel he needed them at all. Sadly, that is <i>part of the illness</i>. If he was in the midst of his highest high or lowest low, he had no idea what was going on or what he was doing. He did the only thing he knew how in order to get himself off that plane, where he knew he <i>did not want to be</i>. No one would let him off the easy way, so he claimed he had a bomb. It got him off the plane, but it also got him killed. It's sad and very messed up, in my mind.

Ok--based on the (unproven) assumption that this fellow rarely needed his pills and was therefore mildly correct in not taking them, I still don't see how this indicts the air marshall of any wrongdoing.

[kindpastor offline]

You obviously only read the headline of this stroy or heard about it from an unreliable source--this story was reported many places, I was amazed at the amount of facts left out many of the articles I read, including:

1.The man claimed he had a bomb
2The man assualted the Air marshall

If a man claiming he had a bomb in his carry on suddenly ran at you with it--well I don't know what you personally would do in that situation. BTW it turns out this guy had bi-polar disorder--I've got a friend with the same thing and he ALWAYS takes his pills--unlike this individual who felt the need to skip them.

sorry I'm jumping in late on this one, and this is somewhat off topic, but I feel like I need to throw in my two cents.

Kindpastor, I have bipolar disorder, as does my sister. We are two very different cases, though.

I experience more lows than highs, and these lows are crippling. I've failed classes and missed work because I can barely get myself out of bed to face the day. Just a few days ago, on Christmas Eve, I was so inexplicably depressed that I missed church with my family (I don't do church, really, but it meant a lot to my father, who is religious, and I really wanted to go for him). I could not stop crying. When they came home, I had finally calmed down, but I could not get off the couch. With the new year, I'll have my mental health coverage back, and I will be finding a psychiatrist to visit to see about getting myself put back on some meds. I'm trying to graduate this Spring and I'm working two jobs, and I'm not going to let my mood disorder get in the way of that, lows and highs be darned.

My sister experiences fantastic manic episodes. She rarely gets depressed (though, when she does, it's as bad as mine). She refuses to take medicine for her mood swings. I don't blame her, really. Why take pills to get rid of something that feels <i>good</i>? In reality, she just doesn't think she'd ill. In her mind, sickness should hurt. As a result, she finds herself in the throes of a manic phase, which can be just as destructive as a depressive phase. She spends money and stays out all night. Her bahaviour is erratic and unplanned, and her speech is so rapid no one can understand her. She usually ends up cutting or dying her hair, or piercing another body part. In the old days, she'd run out and get high. In large part, the definiteion of insanity is not understanding the consequences of your actions. I'd say she qualifies for that when she's manic.

So, just to give this dead guy the benfit of the doubt, let's just say that maybe he was like my sister, and that's why he chose to 'skip' his meds. It's not that he was irresponsible, but that he didn't feel he needed them at all. Sadly, that is <i>part of the illness</i>. If he was in the midst of his highest high or lowest low, he had no idea what was going on or what he was doing. He did the only thing he knew how in order to get himself off that plane, where he knew he <i>did not want to be</i>. No one would let him off the easy way, so he claimed he had a bomb. It got him off the plane, but it also got him killed. It's sad and very messed up, in my mind.

Ok--based on the (unproven) assumption that this fellow rarely needed his pills and was therefore mildly correct in not taking them, I still don't see how this indicts the air marshall of any wrongdoing. Any attempt to do so is just another shot at Americans in general on the part of the disgruntled journalistas who worship the hatred of capitalism

[KarinBerry offline]

You obviously only read the headline of this stroy or heard about it from an unreliable source--this story was reported many places, I was amazed at the amount of facts left out many of the articles I read, including:

1.The man claimed he had a bomb
2The man assualted the Air marshall

If a man claiming he had a bomb in his carry on suddenly ran at you with it--well I don't know what you personally would do in that situation. BTW it turns out this guy had bi-polar disorder--I've got a friend with the same thing and he ALWAYS takes his pills--unlike this individual who felt the need to skip them.

sorry I'm jumping in late on this one, and this is somewhat off topic, but I feel like I need to throw in my two cents.

Kindpastor, I have bipolar disorder, as does my sister. We are two very different cases, though.

I experience more lows than highs, and these lows are crippling. I've failed classes and missed work because I can barely get myself out of bed to face the day. Just a few days ago, on Christmas Eve, I was so inexplicably depressed that I missed church with my family (I don't do church, really, but it meant a lot to my father, who is religious, and I really wanted to go for him). I could not stop crying. When they came home, I had finally calmed down, but I could not get off the couch. With the new year, I'll have my mental health coverage back, and I will be finding a psychiatrist to visit to see about getting myself put back on some meds. I'm trying to graduate this Spring and I'm working two jobs, and I'm not going to let my mood disorder get in the way of that, lows and highs be darned.

My sister experiences fantastic manic episodes. She rarely gets depressed (though, when she does, it's as bad as mine). She refuses to take medicine for her mood swings. I don't blame her, really. Why take pills to get rid of something that feels <i>good</i>? In reality, she just doesn't think she'd ill. In her mind, sickness should hurt. As a result, she finds herself in the throes of a manic phase, which can be just as destructive as a depressive phase. She spends money and stays out all night. Her bahaviour is erratic and unplanned, and her speech is so rapid no one can understand her. She usually ends up cutting or dying her hair, or piercing another body part. In the old days, she'd run out and get high. In large part, the definiteion of insanity is not understanding the consequences of your actions. I'd say she qualifies for that when she's manic.

So, just to give this dead guy the benfit of the doubt, let's just say that maybe he was like my sister, and that's why he chose to 'skip' his meds. It's not that he was irresponsible, but that he didn't feel he needed them at all. Sadly, that is <i>part of the illness</i>. If he was in the midst of his highest high or lowest low, he had no idea what was going on or what he was doing. He did the only thing he knew how in order to get himself off that plane, where he knew he <i>did not want to be</i>. No one would let him off the easy way, so he claimed he had a bomb. It got him off the plane, but it also got him killed. It's sad and very messed up, in my mind.

Ok--based on the (unproven) assumption that this fellow rarely needed his pills and was therefore mildly correct in not taking them, I still don't see how this indicts the air marshall of any wrongdoing.

I didn't say he didn't need them. I used my sister and myself as an example of the different ways the illness can inflict people. My sister needs pills as badly as I do, because her manic phases are just as destructive as my depressive phases. My point was that if he was, in fact, stricken with bipolar disorder, he may have been one of those individuals who didn't suffer many lows and therefore did not consider themselves ill enough to require medicine. That would have been his perception, but not the truth, as the truth would be that he needed the pills badly.

The whole thing could have been avoided if they had just let him off the plane when he made his request. His ticket was paid for, he was a legal passenger on the plane, and he changed his mind for whatever reasons. If I were a flight attendant, I would have let him off when he asked. In my mind, I'd rationalise it with "hey, do I really want to listen to this guy complain for the whole flight that we didn't let him off?"

And then I just think it's unfortunate, because people, in this whole terrorist uproar, have begun to impliment the "shoot first; as questions later" action plan. In my opinion, they could have attempted to think clearly about the situation and they would have realised that a <i>bomb</i> in his <i>carry-on bag</i> would have been detected by the screening process that everyone (passengers and employees) go through to access the airport terminals. But, no. They got him off the plane, and they shot him.

I'm not saying this incriminates the Air Marshall in any way. He was probably following a set plan of action, one of those things they train for 'in the event of...[insert crisis here].'

Anyway, I'm not defending or accusing anyone in the situation. I just thought the guy who died deserved a little more credit than everyone seems to be giving him. I thought that maybe, with my experiences, I could shine a little light on what, perhaps, might be closer to the truth than what gets played on the news and stuff.

[kindpastor offline]

I didn't say he didn't need them. I used my sister and myself as an example of the different ways the illness can inflict people. My sister needs pills as badly as I do, because her manic phases are just as destructive as my depressive phases. My point was that if he was, in fact, stricken with bipolar disorder, he may have been one of those individuals who didn't suffer many lows and therefore did not consider themselves ill enough to require medicine. That would have been his perception, but not the truth, as the truth would be that he needed the pills badly.

The whole thing could have been avoided if they had just let him off the plane when he made his request.They did do this, he claimed he had a bomb and ran towards the air marshall after he had left the plain, at least according to CNN's account His ticket was paid for, he was a legal passenger on the plane, and he changed his mind for whatever reasons.Don't forget the bomb threat If I were a flight attendant, I would have let him off when he asked. In my mind, I'd rationalise it with "hey, do I really want to listen to this guy complain for the whole flight that we didn't let him off?"

And then I just think it's unfortunate, because people, in this whole terrorist uproar, have begun to impliment the "shoot first; as questions later" action plan. In my opinion, they could have attempted to think clearly about the situation and they would have realised that a <i>bomb</i> in his <i>carry-on bag</i> would have been detected by the screening process that everyone (passengers and employees) go through to access the airport terminals. But, no. They got him off the plane, and they shot him.Who says they thought he had a bomb in his carry-on? Who is to say they didn't think he had the detanator to a bomb in the luggage compartment, or some other such contingency? If a man runs at you claiming he has a bomb and your advice is not to shoot him you are a misguided individual

I'm not saying this incriminates the Air Marshall in any way. He was probably following a set plan of action, one of those things they train for 'in the event of...[insert crisis here].'

Anyway, I'm not defending or accusing anyone in the situation. I just thought the guy who died deserved a little more credit than everyone seems to be giving him. I thought that maybe, with my experiences, I could shine a little light on what, perhaps, might be closer to the truth than what gets played on the news and stuff.You seemed to imply that the air marshall was at fault with your statements like "people should have [thought] clearly about the situation, and mentioning the "shoot first, ask questions later" action plan--which was not implimented at all

[Reesane offline]

... In thus, I revive this topic, and encorege people to have more lively debates(sp). And now.....

WOMEN SHOULD CONTROLL WETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD HAVE AN ABOURTION OR USE BIRTH CONTROLL, NOT THE STATE!!!!!!!!!!!

[The BB of C offline]

With that, I am going to stop voicing my opinions, I don't want the world to be against me. I don't really think everything that I do or say out first, and that is not really very good, but that's how I am. So with mattters such as politics, which is very important to me, I am going to back down and just leave with saying....

BUSH ROCKS!

Just when I think I'm the only one.
Okay, I don't know why you all have to be ripping on Bush at all. I'd put money on well over 90% of you couldn't do his job. He is doing the best he can and it may be a very long time before anything is cleared up. Everyone expects everything to be instantaneous. Nothing is instantaneous. Everything takes time.
Also, half the crap that you hear about Bush is nothing but Liberal media that is ticked because he was re-elected and is trying to turn the whole country against him by blowing everything he does out of proportion, and taking everything he says out of context.
All of you who live in countries other than U.S.A, he's been trying to help all of you since he was in office. You've got to give him more time and quit with this "Policing the world" stuff because it's not that in the least bit.
Do your homework people. Learn what this stuff is really about and not just what you hear on the news or read in the papers.

[Reesane offline]

BBC, no attacking other people during an argument.

[Akito offline]

Let's put it simple: He's waaaaaaaaay better than Kerry.

Metaphorically speaking, Kerry had no legs to stand on. Bush had a platform, Kerry did not. So regardless of how "stupid" you guys say he is, (which I don't get involved in polotics that much - So I haven't really any care or clue for what you guys are talking about), I'd pick him over anyone like Kerry.

[Lyoko SA80 offline]

Basicly dad strat the war in iraq and little georgre is finishing it .Doing the dity work for his daddy making dad prond of bush junoir

[LadyLucy offline]

Bush is an idiot. He keeps promising that he's gonna bring the soldiers back, but nooo....he doesn't. He keeps saying that we're gonna find oil, but we don't. He keeps saying there's weapons in Iraq, but they must be invisable....
Yes, we've had worse leaders, but someone needs to give him a good swift kick in the head....

[Akito offline]

Bush is an idiot. He keeps promising that he's gonna bring the soldiers back, but nooo....he doesn't. He keeps saying that we're gonna find oil, but we don't. He keeps saying there's weapons in Iraq, but they must be invisable....
Yes, we've had worse leaders, but someone needs to give him a good swift kick in the head....

Did he specifically say WHEN he was going to bring the soldiers home? Or WHEN we were going to find oil? No, he didn't. - And yes, they DID actually find weapons in Iraq. (News report)

[The BB of C offline]

Like I said yet again. Things take time and they're much trickier than we think they are.

[Akito offline]

Like I said yet again. Things take time and they're much trickier than we think they are.

That's exactly what I was saying on my previous post.

[Cecilia offline]

-sigh- Well, whatever results are left behind will have to be dealt with in two years, when the next president is sworn in.

It's great that we're questioning the government system...but I'm just "meh" right now. x.x; I should care more, but I don't.

[ji45ojperjfenfpen offline]

I don't have much to say...only that I don't like Bush. I feel bad for saying it, though... but just the way hes running things and with that 'war' thing...

[LadyLucy offline]

Bush is an idiot. He keeps promising that he's gonna bring the soldiers back, but nooo....he doesn't. He keeps saying that we're gonna find oil, but we don't. He keeps saying there's weapons in Iraq, but they must be invisable....
Yes, we've had worse leaders, but someone needs to give him a good swift kick in the head....

Did he specifically say WHEN he was going to bring the soldiers home? Or WHEN we were going to find oil? No, he didn't. - And yes, they DID actually find weapons in Iraq. (News report)[/q

Actually, he did give a time limit for the soilder orignally. Every year he says 'next year, next year'. Well it's next year. I don't personally care about any other backtalk he may or may not have spouted. I just wish he'd bring the troops home.

[YDV offline]

Meh... I would go back and try to talk some of the points in this thread but I'm not quite up to it right now.

I will say this though: I hate Bush. I hate Bush. I hate Bush. As a matter of fact, I pretty much hate all Conservatives. So there. I'm not trying to take a kiddy approach and say "this is what I think and I'm right you're wrong shut up," I'm just stating my opinion right now. And before some Bush-lover starts yelling at me for being incompetant or something, I've pretty much lost all respect for George W. Bush after he supported that whole constitutional amendment thing. I can't wait till 2008.

And... xD; I'd hate to ruin the mood or anything, but I just remember hearing something on SNL where our Great President said "The United States and America will go to war." Or something. Yeah, I heard it from down the hall.... and I started cracking up.

Also...

http://www.outline.com/news.php?p_news_id=9

...Texans. >>;

[Jeremified offline]

Okay, you know what? I'M SICK OF HEARING ALL THIS STUFF! Bush is our PRESIDENT for crying out loud! Everybody makes a wrong turn and a bad decision every once in a while! Maybe some more than others, but nevertheless, he's trying, right? He doesn't make the wrong decision because he WANTS to, right?! Seriously, people, where's the compassion?

[YDV offline]

Yes, he's our President. Did I vote for him? No. Would I vote for him? No. So what's your point? This is actually a democracy, believe it or not, and I don't have to like our leader.

That type of thinking suggests to me that you don't think he should be responsible for his actions. Everybody makes mistakes, so who cares if the person who just happens to be our head of state makes one, right? No. That's not how it works. I really don't mean to be so cold, but I told you how I felt about it. I didn't say that he wasn't trying to be a good President, I was saying that I don't like a lot of his past actions and decisions, nor him personally. I'm entitled to my opinion, aren't I?

Again, no hard feelings ^^ (Politics sort of does that to people...)

[Jeremified offline]

Um, yeah, I know. That's why YOU weren't the one who just made the speech. I just expressed MY opinion (with the slight intention of influencing others), as you expressed yours.

And I know this is a democracy.

[YDV offline]

.......See... Edit... xD;;

[Reesane offline]

HE TRYED TO MAKE A CONSTATUTIONAL BAN ON GAY MARIGE! If that's not an attack on constatutional rights, than I don't know what is.

[<<Rumor?? offline]

Gah, don't get me started. I won't stop.