Abortion:Should It, Or Should It Not Be Outlawed?

[ConcreteAngel offline]

My gosh why aren't anyone reading what other's type! They don't care but you should care about other lives it goes against the Core Democratic Value Life!! You should care about other people's lives. You are giving me a headach because you don't understand how bad abortion is! Why can't anyone understand? Is the world filled with imbeciles?!? Why don't you people listen! ?! Darn it! If I'm not making any sense just tell me, but I'm pretty sure that I'm making perfect sense so just listen ABORTION IS HORRIBLE!! Just listen to me! You don't understand how bad it is. OK, ok. Let me explain the Pursuit of Happiness; it means that you can do anything you please but it can't harm others. Which abortion isn't being Purisuit of Happiness so you shouldn't have abortion. There are other options, like setting up adoption which is humane. Just abortion is the worst thing possible for someone to think of.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Woah woah! Calm down, steam train! Take a deep breath.

It's everyone's opinions, and you should respect that. It's kinda rude to just go off saying that yours is the only way to go, and everyone else is stupid.

[ConcreteAngel offline]

When I get out of control no one can keep me calm and why don't people listen to others? Doesn't anyone get it?

[JesusFreak offline]

Uh, because this is a rational argument <s> Which means everyone ignores everything everyone says</s>.


uh, yeah.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

If you can't keep calm, then don't post.

And just because you made one post in a forum does not mean you know everything about this.

We ARE in fact listening to you. I'm listening toyou. And I'd like you to listen to me.

So yeah, we do get it.

And, well, have you ever posted in some of the games? Tha'd be a good way to reaquaint yourself with some of the other members, and get their opinions. There's mote to this forum than jumping up and down about issues. This is first and foremost a FAN site, mm'kay?

[ConcreteAngel offline]

No you don't get it. I'm just venting right now just don't agree with abortion most people don't understand what it truly is. It's killing and killing is bad

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Aww... wanna make a rant then?

HEAD RIGHT OVER TO THE RANT SECTION!

It's aslo a lot of fun. You get to say nearly whatever you want! And on top of that, you won't be breaking the rules, coz You'll be on topic in the right thread.

So... moosh moosh!

*Turns to readers of previous posts* And that goes for you guys too. Back on topic time!

[. offline]

Ya JF, we can read because the frontal lobes give us the ability to reason a written language.

What seperates us from the rest of the pack is our ability to reason, make tools.

Of course we lack other things, such primal instinct which is sad really.

My gosh why aren't anyone reading what other's type! They don't care but you should care about other lives it goes against the Core Democratic Value Life!! You should care about other people's lives. You are giving me a headach because you don't understand how bad abortion is! Why can't anyone understand? Is the world filled with imbeciles?!? Why don't you people listen! ?! Darn it! If I'm not making any sense just tell me, but I'm pretty sure that I'm making perfect sense so just listen ABORTION IS HORRIBLE!! Just listen to me! You don't understand how bad it is. OK, ok. Let me explain the Pursuit of Happiness; it means that you can do anything you please but it can't harm others. Which abortion isn't being Purisuit of Happiness so you shouldn't have abortion. There are other options, like setting up adoption which is humane. Just abortion is the worst thing possible for someone to think of.

No I'm listening, I'm just saying your horribly blinded by your faith that you can't see the way to make things work in the real world. Ya don't want to be a Zealot.

[ConcreteAngel offline]

No I'm listening, I'm just saying your horribly blinded by your faith that you can't see the way to make things work in the real world . Ya don't want to be a Zealot.

That was possibly the dumbest, most ignorant thing you have ever said.
Just because something doesn't line up with my beliefs, I can't see how things work. Now you're labeling me with stereotypes. Is that what tyou have your arguments around?


A zealot eh? Then I'm proud to be a zealot for a cause worth defending, Rights for the unborn.

[. offline]

No I'm listening, I'm just saying your horribly blinded by your faith that you can't see the way to make things work in the real world . Ya don't want to be a Zealot.

That was possibly the dumbest, most ignorant thing you have ever said.
Just because something doesn't line up with my beliefs, I can't see how things work. Now you're labeling me with stereotypes. Is that what tyou have your arguments around?


A zealot eh? Then I'm proud to be a zealot for a cause worth defending, Rights for the unborn.

And being solidly in agreement that your view should be force upon everyone Christian or not because your Book says it to be so, which goes against completely everything this country is founded upon and one of the few things that make this a free nation.

Your mentally is equal to that of Iran, or Egypt.

[JesusFreak offline]

I disagree.

The constitution says that all people are allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
There is a difference between forcing someone to follow a religion (No, I don't support that. I want Christians to be Christians by choice, not by law.) And Forcing somebody to stop committing acts of murder.

When you come down to it, It seems that your opinion on abortion is influenced by what you think a developing baby in the womb is.

So, she's threatening to spike your PC? THat's the equivalent of what Egypt and Iran would do.

[. offline]

I disagree.

The constitution says that all people are allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
There is a difference between forcing someone to follow a religion (No, I don't support that. I want Christians to be Christians by choice, not by law.) And Forcing somebody to stop committing acts of murder.

When you come down to it, It seems that your opinion on abortion is influenced by what you think a developing baby in the womb is.

So, she's threatening to spike your PC? THat's the equivalent of what Egypt and Iran would do.

And it seems yours is influenced by what the good book says.

It's compromise. Which is what the nation has now, a compromise. Is either side satisfied? No. But it works. It's really a non-issue at this point except for the religious nut cases that protest outside the clinics and warn all of those that they'll go to Hell. Wonderful thing about this country, you can be a sinner or a saint. entirely up to you to choose... But some people just don't want choice and would rather force and brainwash the masses.

[JesusFreak offline]

*looks at username*...Figure that one out on yer own, didya?
A good nation doesn't make its people do what's right, true. However, a good nation also provides protection for the weak and helpless, which is practicially the definition of anyone under the age of 10 who isn't a ninja or doesn't take Karate or play many sports

[ConcreteAngel offline]

I totally agree with JesusFreak. He's smart listen to him. But people should be open to what other people are saying, and listining to them.

[JesusFreak offline]

Uh, that's what They're accusing us of nt doing.

[ConcreteAngel offline]

Sorry about that. I went off again.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

Okay, that's enough, you two. You've ben sparring off one another the entire page, and I think you've posted enough on this for one day.

And TPP, please calm down a bit. You're doing the same, you need to stop saying one is better than the other.

As for now, I'm going to lock this for the day, just to slow the pace down a bit. if anyone has a problem, please PM me, and we'll talk oit over, or another mod team can unlock it.

[EDIT]

As promised, unlocked. Please, let's keep this a little calme this time...

[JesusFreak offline]

http://www.nrlc.org/Factsheets/FS14_Reasons.pdf

Instead ofConstant talking without getting anywhere. I'm just gonna post this for now.

The right to life was intended as meaning the right to a life without tyranny, which ironically banning abortion could be seen as reflecting.

Its as much tyranny as banning murder or drug use.

Actually...we are. Always have been. Excluding ourselves from the animal kingdom is never going to work, as we belong to the ape family, and are "homo sapiens" in genus and species.

Incidentally, gorillas are animals, and they have a language, a society, a culture, and opposable thumbs. Wolves have the same (with the exception of opposable thumbs), as do ants and even the lowly cockroach.

...And some beetles are capable of starting fires. ^^;

I'm not saying we are excluded from the animal kingdom, I'm saying we are unique from the rest of the animals in the animal kingdom.



THere's a difference between primitive bands of Gorillas eating dead skin off each other and a barber shop. THeres a difference between starting fires and using coal deposits to create steam to power vehicles and saunas (the beetles are still cool. i had no idea about that)

Question is, do they need it? We have electricity and running water because we've developed it and fooled ourselves into thinking we need commodity's like that to survive (we did just fine for quite a few thousand years without any of that). Now granted, this isn't to say that we should all go back to living like cave people (that would mean no TV and no more CL ;D ), but I hope I'm making a clear point here... ^^;

What I was trying to say was that ants couldn't possibly do any of the things we do, such as type on a keyboard and go back and forth about our species in the womb being human.

If it weren't for our weapons and sheer dumb luck/skill, we'd have been toast centuries ago (and not the crispy kind with butter either). So many creatures in this world have far better survival skills then we do, and don't hurt the environment they live in.

Heck, a cockroach could probably survive a nuclear explosion...can we do that? ^^;

Exactly. If we evolved from apes and our survival skills are pathetic, then why are we still around? It takes an awfully large amount of dumb luck/skill. This is one of the biggest gripes I have with evolution, besides bats (seriously. How could a monstrous half shrew-bat thing wiht elongenated fingers survive?).

Okay, That's put up.

[mitchmcmichael offline]

I think abortion should be outlawed.

[JesusFreak offline]

...


Yes.

Here's something interesting I found in the sheet i put up in my last post

It's Her body, her choice!


Truthfully, while a baby lives inside and grows in a mother's womb for 9 months, he/she is a distinct individual with his or her own unique abilities and experiences. The child's blood is often different from his or her mother's blood and never mixes with the mother's. He or she has hs own unique genetic identity and abilities and talents the mother may not have.

[ConcreteAngel offline]

Yeah um abortion is really bad and I agree with IMMA FREAKY FO' JESUS. I've calmed down after staying home sick.

[Mewberries151]

http://www.nrlc.org/Factsheets/FS14_Reasons.pdf

Instead ofConstant talking without getting anywhere. I'm just gonna post this for now.

Okay...is there any reason why you keep bump editing this thread? It's really kind of...spammish. ^^; Editing your post to fix things you missed is fine, but once every day, especially to post something off-topic anyway looks...suspicious, sorry. Please don't do that if you can help it. *sweatdrops*

The right to life was intended as meaning the right to a life without tyranny, which ironically banning abortion could be seen as reflecting.

Its as much tyranny as banning murder or drug use.

Untrue. Drug use actually is legal (otherwise no drugs or medecine could exist). Alcohol and Nicotine are both drugs, and they're completely legal, so why shouldn't abortion be.

And don't even get me started on murder and all its degrees.

At any rate, it is tyranny to forbid a woman to have a procedure that could save her life in a risky pregnancy. That's a death sentence.

Actually...we are. Always have been. Excluding ourselves from the animal kingdom is never going to work, as we belong to the ape family, and are "homo sapiens" in genus and species.

Incidentally, gorillas are animals, and they have a language, a society, a culture, and opposable thumbs. Wolves have the same (with the exception of opposable thumbs), as do ants and even the lowly cockroach.

...And some beetles are capable of starting fires. ^^;

I'm not saying we are excluded from the animal kingdom, I'm saying we are unique from the rest of the animals in the animal kingdom.

Yes, and I was pointing out how we're really not. We just don't understand the intelligence and language and culture of the animals around us.

Honestly, if there's anyone who's the "ignorant beasts" of the planet. It's us, seeing as how most animals seem to be able to understand the signals given off by the other.

THere's a difference between primitive bands of Gorillas eating dead skin off each other and a barber shop. THeres a difference between starting fires and using coal deposits to create steam to power vehicles and saunas (the beetles are still cool. i had no idea about that)

Ah, perhaps, but there is also a difference between gorillas who only kill when their young, family and lives are threatened, and humans who just decide one day to shoot somebody for the $10 they may or may not have in their wallets.

There is also a difference between the beaver who cuts down trees only so that he can build a house for his family to live in, and the human woodchopping companies that destroy millions of acres of trees, land, and displace thousands of creatures...simply to put up a mall.

You can see where I'm going with this, yes? If we're so "special" and "dominant", how come we're the least useful creatures when it comes to living on this planet and co-habiting with its creatures and plants.

Question is, do they need it? We have electricity and running water because we've developed it and fooled ourselves into thinking we need commodity's like that to survive (we did just fine for quite a few thousand years without any of that). Now granted, this isn't to say that we should all go back to living like cave people (that would mean no TV and no more CL ;D ), but I hope I'm making a clear point here... ^^;

What I was trying to say was that ants couldn't possibly do any of the things we do, such as type on a keyboard and go back and forth about our species in the womb being human.

Yes, but we also can't carry things over 10 times our weight/height, as ants can. And who's to say that if an ant were to feel some need to type on a keyboard, that he couldn't do it?

And last I checked, no human could understand the language of ants. So how do we know what they're capable of discussing?

Incidently, ants fight wars, keep slaves, and build elaborate chambers, tunnels, and other architectural sorts of things. Human enough, for you?

If it weren't for our weapons and sheer dumb luck/skill, we'd have been toast centuries ago (and not the crispy kind with butter either). So many creatures in this world have far better survival skills then we do, and don't hurt the environment they live in.

Heck, a cockroach could probably survive a nuclear explosion...can we do that? ^^;

Exactly. If we evolved from apes and our survival skills are pathetic, then why are we still around? It takes an awfully large amount of dumb luck/skill. This is one of the biggest gripes I have with evolution, besides bats (seriously. How could a monstrous half shrew-bat thing wiht elongenated fingers survive?).

Okay, That's put up.

Kindly don't bring evolution into this. That's a moot point, and completely off-topic in regards to abortion.

We survived in the same way that gorillas survive...by banding together into small groups for the sake of mutual protection and care. It's the buddy system.

And just what is your point about bats? So they're flying mammals that eat fruit and insects. They evolved so that the could fly after the insects they wanted and to reach the fruit high up in the trees. Just look at their tails...it's a spoon for scooping up moths and other bugs out of the air. They've evolved and have become perfectly designed for the tasks they need to perform to survive. If anything, they're brilliant proof as to what evolution can do.



But this is now exceedingly off-topic. *sweatdrops* Let's try and get this thread back onto being a discussion of just Abortion. Evolution and the question of human "dominance" is another discussion for another thread.

[JesusFreak offline]

Whoops, I'll remember that, sorry. I just noticed you replied to my other post (I was distracted when Zaruko-chan started ranting) and I didn't know how to post it. Won't happen again, I promise.

Untrue. Drug use actually is legal (otherwise no drugs or medecine could exist). Alcohol and Nicotine are both drugs, and they're completely legal, so why shouldn't abortion be.

And don't even get me started on murder and all its degrees.

At any rate, it is tyranny to forbid a woman to have a procedure that could save her life in a risky pregnancy. That's a death sentence.

Yeah, Tylenol is legal. That's not what I was talking about. I was talking about Crack cocaine, crystal Meth, Ecxtasy or however you spell it. Alcohol is a depressant, true but it doesn't have the same devastation as other drugs, and one glass won't necessarily destroy your health. Plus, the difference between Beer and Coke(the drug) is that you don't neccesarily drink beer to pass out, while you snort Coke to get a high that slowly grabs your life and flushes it down the toilet. I can't come up with a defense for smoking because it's almost as bad as the narcotics. The only conspiracy theory I believe in is that the tobacco industry is keeping it legal, but I don't wanna go off on that.

Yes, and I was pointing out how we're really not. We just don't understand the intelligence and language and culture of the animals around us.

Honestly, if there's anyone who's the "ignorant beasts" of the planet. It's us, seeing as how most animals seem to be able to understand the signals given off by the other.

The intelligence and language...
Are you including fish in that statement? fish have a memory of five seconds. pretty hard to say they are intelligent or have a language besides thrashing around to get a bit of food.

EDIT: Yeah, I know about Schools of Fish and Salmon, but is that reflex, or actaul memory?

Ah, perhaps, but there is also a difference between gorillas who only kill when their young, family and lives are threatened, and humans who just decide one day to shoot somebody for the $10 they may or may not have in their wallets.

There is also a difference between the beaver who cuts down trees only so that he can build a house for his family to live in, and the human woodchopping companies that destroy millions of acres of trees, land, and displace thousands of creatures...simply to put up a mall.

Yes, there's a difference, but that's an example of mismanagement.

Yes, but we also can't carry things over 10 times our weight/height, as ants can. And who's to say that if an ant were to feel some need to type on a keyboard, that he couldn't do it?

And last I checked, no human could understand the language of ants. So how do we know what they're capable of discussing?

Incidently, ants fight wars, keep slaves, and build elaborate chambers, tunnels, and other architectural sorts of things. Human enough, for you?

Because his legs are so set?

Because ants can't speak? Pheremones can be reflexes too, yanno.

But can ants keep the whole place up and running if one individual (the queen) dies?

And just what is your point about bats? So they're flying mammals that eat fruit and insects. They evolved so that the could fly after the insects they wanted and to reach the fruit high up in the trees. Just look at their tails...it's a spoon for scooping up moths and other bugs out of the air. They've evolved and have become perfectly designed for the tasks they need to perform to survive. If anything, they're brilliant proof as to what evolution can do.

I'm talking about the creature's (which is commonly reffered to evolving from the shrew) fingers. For teh wings to develop, there would have to be elongated fingersto support and act as a frame to those wings. Those long fingers wouldn't allow the poor creature to do anything. It coudn't fly, climb, hold food up to its mouth, forage for food, and it would be pretty slow too. How the heck would it survive long enough to reproduce?


This is getting off Abortion into Animal Rights. From now on, I'm posting about this there.

[Overcaffeinated Sloth offline]

You are confuzed with your tterms of use, misuse, and abuse. I really suggest you look over that drug thing.

And we're talking about Abortion, not evolution or drugs.

The school of fish is instinctive, and provides a higher success rate of fertile females from being eaten, thus keeping the food chain in balance and the speciaes thriving. So, a fish does not need a memory, only instinct. The memory is only the record of what happens in the lifetime, and thus not neede by fish, sice it's all taken over by instinct. If it had a memory, it would contradict with the instinct, and the fish type would ie out, whouch would alter the food chain. Humans, however, have a higher thinking process, and so they need dramatically larger memories, as well as less instinct. Since humans can defend themselves and do not travel in packs or schools, not every human needs to be born. Unfortunately, because of the rapid increease of humans, the food chain is changing to a point where we're notcing it, and we don't want it to change. We hav either have everything stay how things are, and kill ourselves out, or. change the ecosystem, and completely monitor the planet. Neither we want to do, because w'ere afraid of variables. We haven't even begun to notice everything. Now that we can have people who have their lives secure, we can look back and look fowards. But we're not, so we make poor decisions.

And humans can't crawl around in dense jugles or up trees like ants can, nor upside down in a tunnel built of sand and spit. The keyboard was meant for the human, thus why it was developed. However, if ants needed a keyboard, one could be developed, but couldn't be used by humans because it was not meant for them.
Pheremones are not reflexes, it's a release of chemicals managed by the brain. It's planned through instinct and knowlege, and is not meant for the immediate protection of life, as reflexes are.
So, about the queen of ants dying. Would we be able to survive if all our brains died? Because, y'know, it does actually direct the cells, and all. It's directing your fingers to type right now. Hello, this is AngelBolt's brain talking... Humans are a compilations of cells that all have specialized purposes. But we call ourselves independant organisms, when w're more like domains.

And I don't think you understand the mechanics of anything. Bats do have fingers, on the ends of their wings. The structure acts as a frame, and the muscle network runs through the wings just as anything else does, and can contract and relax to move the figners. It's used for gripping, holding, and clawing. They don't end, like a bird's wings do. When you think of fingers, yu can think of them as something other than the ones on your hand.

[Tangent128 offline]

Posts getting a little long...

At any rate, it is tyranny to forbid a woman to have a procedure that could save her life in a risky pregnancy. That's a death sentence.

That's the grey area. But it's also a very uncommon case. What's your opinion on non-life-threatening cases?